Already dead?

[Skanky Butterpuss]

hw is overpowered, that we know. it is being tweaked for the next patch, so it should be fixed soon. the rest of that just sounds like bitching from someone that cant get past the defense because he doesnt know how to adapt to different playing styles for a new game.

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

hw is overpowered, that we know. it is being tweaked for the next patch, so it should be fixed soon. the rest of that just sounds like bitching from someone that cant get past the defense because he doesnt know how to adapt to different playing styles for a new game.

I've talked to some other people and they all think the same as I do. Keep ignoring the problems, the game will die even more. When the game first released there were maybe 20 servers completely full...now it's maybe one or two even on weekends.

[SME]

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

hw is overpowered, that we know. it is being tweaked for the next patch, so it should be fixed soon. the rest of that just sounds like bitching from someone that cant get past the defense because he doesnt know how to adapt to different playing styles for a new game.

Perhaps another candidate for a locked thread?

[caesium]

Originally Posted by cdotter

And, of course, the only map that gets played is ff_well

Oh yeah? I play on public servers and in a fair few pickups. ff_well is fairly popular on public servers I guess, but I personally don't play it much at all on publics because its slower gameplay style isn't what I like (but some ppl do, that's the important point). In pickups we very very rarely play ff_well, and aardvark is actually pld an awful lot lol (just using this as an example to show what you said was wrong). I agree with you and many others I'd like to see lots of new maps in FF, with various gameplay styles, but that is already happening (there are quite a few community maps that are already great fun, even in their unfinished beta state for many).

Btw here's a few community maps I'm really enjoying playing on atm and which I'd highly recommend checking out (I'm assuming you haven't by your comments):

blis_2fort
aardvark_battleships
congestus
dropdown (is being updated)
flag4sky (beta)
flow (beta)
xpress (beta)

PS Yeah lock this thread pls someone.

[Coronius]

IMO medic is way more fun to play than it was in tfc.

I dont really see a problem with def being to strong now, i pwn so much more as a medic now than i did before and im not really a good player.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

by any chance were the people you talked to hardcore tfc clanners for years? because that would just make sense.

(no offense the the hxc clanners that arent douches [i love you caes])

[Coronius]

You cant blame the game when someone is better than you.

For example if youre playing CS and you get pwnt just cause somedude is über 1337, its not the game's fault is it?

[SME]

Originally Posted by Coronius

You cant blame the game when someone is better than you.

For example if youre playing CS and you get pwnt just cause somedude is über 1337, its not the game's fault is it?

Of course you can't.

What if the guy isn't as 1337 as you imply and it IS the game causing an imbalance? I'm not saying there is, just that it's possible.

[Ramono]

I must say, I expected more from this mod than it is, but it is still great fun.

Once more custom maps are done, the playercount will skyrocket, and your mouth will be shut, hopefully forever.



Already dead?
no.

I'm just saying what's wrong with the game. If you guys want to keep circle jerking, go ahead. The game will be dead soon enough if the imbalances aren't fixed.

[Desyphur]

Engineer is also way too powerful. The rail gun is supposed to be a weak piece of shit. Why is it so powerful now? Not only does the engineer get an overpowered automated gun, but now he gets a rail gun that can do some damage AND a super shotgun, frag grenades, and emp grenades? And why is the sg so overpowered? It used to be a medic could crouch down just barely seeing the sg and nail gun it. Now the sg locks on to you instantly even if it can barely see you. And the range on it is ridiculous. I've been killed on the other side of the yard on ff_well by a yard sg.

Bull...shit...

Sure, the rail gun is powerful, but you have to aim it and be able to lead someone. Also, last night I was playing Aardvark and a Medic was able to take down my SG easy, then a soldier took it down when I put it around a corner. I had it up in my normal place and the medic crouches down over to the side, beside some boxes. Nailgun's the shit outta my gun. I couldn't railgun him because I was busy repairing my Sentry, and when I'd get a shot fully charged and shot at him, he'd dodge it. So yeah, bullshit, l2p noob.

[Coronius]

the sg has been heavily modified since tfc, its much much much easier to kill and much easier to simply avoid.

[GhostBuster]

Come on, what about the spy? with the cloak and sabotage freatures he`s pretty overpowered, and the scout? wallhack and nocrouchneeded-slide plus the always efecctive for skilled players concs are enough to pass by any class and the sg`s delay is totally fair for both the sg and a decent scout (i even feelt it unfair for the engy)... and the pyro? i dont have to clear that he can be used as offence as well as def.. the medic its the same ol fraggin + concing + healing that can take down almost every class... both sides got upgraded.

Of course there are things to change (like the hw speed and damage) but that "offys dont have a chance against def" its bullshit, you just stumbled with some changes and you tought that because you were good at tfc you will kick ass here, guess what, ff inst tfc.

[Foxtrick]

I'm ignoring the flaming and flame-bait here, completely, and just giving my own opinion.

I was a hardcore player back from around 1999-2004 ish. I loved every clan game, every argument, every contraversy, every person I met. Ofcourse that point of view, might be greeted with rose tinted glasses but its definately a game(TFC) I wouldn't have parted with for any other at the time.

Unforunately, without Valve supporting and advertising on Steam, this was going to be a very uphill battle, especially as this is a community project with no other resources than our own spare time and knowledge. Simply, there is no real advertisement.

For me, I consider myself a very open minded gamer, I loved publics and killing people who don't/won't play clan style and take the game to the depth's of binding etc. Not just that, but the challenge of beating a randomly placed defence madeup of random classes At same time I love clanned games. I had hoped to see alot more genunine pubbers from other games and that who was trying FF, but that has not really happened as we all hoped.

FF is a fantastic mod, with a few, what I dare say is.. minor flaws(stuff to be tweaked or atleast hotly debated -as they are now). The general look of the game is very 'serious' and just doesn't look that fun. With regards to the drooping population, I put that down to, a 2000 odd(taking into account timezones) population of people specifically waiting for this mod, mostly old TFC'ers. Obviously, with TFC being a old game, alot of us are/nearly middle aged with alot more stuff going off in life. And I think its us(me included) that like FF yet have other things going on. And so are subconsiously passing the baton onto a mythical pubber that wants to take FF from a simple, noobish beginning to a clan.

The biggest mistake I think we all made(and wnated), was bringing the release date forward to match TF2. It should have even put back FF, to let people settle into TF2's genre and move onto FF it they later wanted to(again, how they would have found FF, would have made it neigh impossible for 90% of TF2 pubbers). All because of Valve that is.

In essence, I guess im saying its largely down to not knowing FF exists from a public eye. A real shame initially for us all. Aslong as the dev's hang in there, and some players.

I'd say things can change still though, what we need is this - and thats instead of us old veterans not bothering anymore - or most of us.

1. Make fun videos
2. Make fun fansites
3. Make fun maps(Murderball equivilents).
4. Mappers consider rescaling their maps. And much as lighting in HL2 is vastly superior to HL1, brighten up the weather(literally! - inside and out), the whole industrial theme looks nice and everything but its needs to be countered by alot of light! A minor point but still important, please put in MORE signs for directions in the AvD maps, and take away some of the clutter - dustbowl is a real good job generally, but cornfield is a nightmare to navigate .
5. This could be being crap generally since my gamer days but I find it real hard to know what is going on sometimes? Agreed TFC was chaotic but it was really easyto pinpoint where the action is going off and who is hitting who, but it gets frustrating as it currently is.
6. Its cool to contest classes, as MMO's have taken over completely, so its a real height to debate - as in those games, classes are everything. I think this needs to be taken into consideration by the dev team!

[bekkra]

OMG Foxtrick, not THAT Foxtrick, are you *hug*

For what it is worth, and without having the skillwise background of Foxy, I have to admit I agree on most of what he said.

There just has to be something we can do to advertise the game more. Personally, I'm asking people at work, telling about the possibility to get the game for free - by the event of the giveaway licenses offered with the orange box - but I have found only one potential player this far.

It is boring to just repeat what somebody else has said, but I agree wholeheartedly on the map detail / lighting issue. FF is lovely, but for really new players to like it, much more signs are necessary. Signs, visual clues ( as for where you are on the map ) and even better visibility. On some maps, it is quite possible to be shot at (by a normal class, not especially a sniper) while you cannot yet see the difference in team colour. No that is not a problem when there is only one player to see, but when you see two or tree fighting, knowing who is the enemy can make all the difference

Debate is going on about how well FF is balanced, and so I'll put in my voice against the badass hwguy. I have been in public games where a single hwguy stopped the attack enough to let the other defendefs just clean up the mess. When this goes on and on on several maps, people drop ( as they also do because of the GPF problems ).

FF is a nicer, better game than TFC was, but it is still played by people. These people do the same bad things as in TFC - defending a map by 8 people makes the game sad, even if you can take the opportunity to see the challenge. Just as Foxy, I too feel it rewarding to get the flag from a team entirely on def, but that does not make the game fun for a truly new player.

There were discussions around FF about the playing style - we would not make a "clan style" game, rather, we would offer new ways of playing. Somehow I feel that there are many people around who still want the playing style ( half teams off vs def ) that was so different from the general public games.... well, neither FF, nor the published maps enforce or help this kind of game. My question is then, what are those different playing styles that we said we would want ?

When I play FF, I see the good things, and my heart fills with joy and pride over my fellow players who have created such a lovely game out of dust. Then as hours pass, I realize that not much has really changed, and my heart bleeds for the new players who meet a game so similar to the old, n00b-crusher TFC.

So please consider every concievable opportunity to make the game even more easy to understand for really new players. People who knew TFC only get older and fewer !

No whining, I love FF, this post is to make it even better. Many congrats to the dev team for the best Fortress ever !

//

[Foxtrick]

Much love Bekkra, long time no poke!

[tu!]

steam->games->fortress forever->server list... there are plenty of ppl playing.

[beaver_shots]

Thats true what fox said about the lighting lol. I feel that way on all most all the maps. Its ok for things to be dirty but lets get some lights on in this dump. Also direcitons, I know where to go only becuse I played tfc on most maps. If I where a noob just trying FF I would have no freaking clue on any of the AD maps.

[Dr.Uudge]

It's inevitable that people will move from tf2 --> FF. Inevitable.

I got a chance to play tf2 now. Sure enough i feel like moving through a tub of unsolidified concrete. Except the scout. The scout feels like how the FF demoman or the spy moves, except for the double jump. I played as defense scout and not 1, and i mean not even 1 soldier, spy, demoman, pyro, other scouts, medics, was able to get past me. I had to apologize cuz i felt so bad, but then he was like, "why apologize? the soldier only has 75 more life, but the scout can run circles around most classes."

and my shock when he said next: "it's natural for scouts to frag soldiers and other classes."

I was like wha....

[Direhit]

Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge

It's inevitable that people will move from tf2 --> FF. Inevitable.

Perhaps, but realistically, that number is going to be a lot less then you think.