Skill Maps scare new players away from the game - Page 4

cownaetion · 03-07-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

As for this thread, its pointless. I run a skills server and if someone comes in and has no idea whats going on, i always tell them to join a server with a map that starts with ff_. Sometimes, i will even post the IP of a server for them to join. I dont want new players to join their first server and think that the game is not a CTF game. I am also not about to stop running my server nor am I about to lock it.

Sorry but that statement right there is exactly what the thread is about. That's what we call a 'contradiction'. But I agree that the start of the thread isn't exactly valid as someone has pointed out earlier that 'skill' maps are not required or essential to the actual game; simply just wants.

Satan: Nope, shouldn't be a problem later on down the road. If no one does later, I'll start a thread up and see just how many people are willing to volunteer. If we get a good amount then it'd be worth trying to start. Otherwise only a few people it'll be like a fish out of water.

Dr.Satan · 03-07-2008, 08:04 PM

yep...I agree. I'll join and help out as much as I can. Start up the thread when you get a chance!

TheWetMule · 03-07-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cownaetion

Sorry but that statement right there is exactly what the thread is about. That's what we call a 'contradiction'. But I agree that the start of the thread isn't exactly valid as someone has pointed out earlier that 'skill' maps are not required or essential to the actual game; simply just wants.

That's shocking, I'm assuming this is coming from a CTFer? That's also like saying AvD maps are not required or essential, just wants, to a skill map player, CTF maps are not required or essential. This game has MANY game modes, each are as valuable as the other, each have their own player base.

Also, the euroskills FF server last night was had 7/8 NEW people on last night, I explained to them that there's multiple game modes and this was just one of them, even told them about CTF and AVD type maps, yet they stayed due to quad being easier to pick up than concing and them generally enjoying themselves. Imagine if those people joined a clan server, not being able to kill anything and repeatedly dying over and over again is a lot less enjoyable.

cownaetion · 03-07-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWetMule

That's shocking, I'm assuming this is coming from a CTFer? That's also like saying AvD maps are not required or essential, just wants, to a skill map player, CTF maps are not required or essential. This game has MANY game modes, each are as valuable as the other, each have their own player base.

Also, the euroskills FF server last night was had 7/8 NEW people on last night, I explained to them that there's multiple game modes and this was just one of them, even told them about CTF and AVD type maps, yet they stayed due to quad being easier to pick up than concing and them generally enjoying themselves. Imagine if those people joined a clan server, not being able to kill anything and repeatedly dying over and over again is a lot less enjoyable.

Mule, I'm not here to argue or fight. It's true skill maps are wants, not essentials. In the end, Fortress is/was never about skill maps. Yes, their fun, addictive, highly favored. I love them too. But if you were to take away skill maps, Fortress would still be there. TF2 is a perfect example. So if your saying if skill maps were taken away from FF, than it would collapse cause they are the core of the game, than sorry to say but it is doomed. Another example are leagues. What league maps are there? Not one of them are skill maps. Are skills essential to the game? Sure, but the maps aren't. The best maps for skills are the league maps themselves.

No one has to agree with me and that's fine. Everyone has their own perspective and this is mine. I'm not here for flames, bickering, strangling each other. If you don't agree, than fine. If you do than fine. That's all, not a big deal at all.

Satan: Yeah, it'll be up before the end of the night.

TheWetMule · 03-07-2008, 09:09 PM

Im sorry, but that works for CTF too, if you took that away you'd still have AvD leagues, the game itself wouldn't collapse, it'd just lose 1/3 of its player base dependant on what you play mostly, is what makes a map a "want" more than a necessity. Also, there was skill map CONTESTS, which are essentially leagues, based off of advanced jumps, doing them in a minimum, out doing somebody, having more flare. Skills maps also draw in a relatively big crowd.

EDIT: I'm aware everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but that opinion is what makes a certain game type a want or a necessity

cownaetion · 03-07-2008, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWetMule

EDIT: I'm aware everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but that opinion is what makes a certain game type a want or a necessity

And let's leave it at that, shall we? I don't want to argue. If anyone wants to put their 2 cents in go ahead. I'd rather watch your blue pipe video, that's more interesting

Damascus · 03-07-2008, 10:04 PM

I say we need a server that's titled "Newbie Helper".

And in that, we need a map that uses textures to help newbies how to conce, pipe jump, etc.

greenday5494 · 03-07-2008, 10:14 PM

such as a training level that is being worked on by squeek

Bakez · 03-07-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWetMule

Also, the euroskills FF server last night was had 7/8 NEW people on last night, I explained to them that there's multiple game modes and this was just one of them, even told them about CTF and AVD type maps, yet they stayed due to quad being easier to pick up than concing and them generally enjoying themselves. Imagine if those people joined a clan server, not being able to kill anything and repeatedly dying over and over again is a lot less enjoyable.

The fact you had to explain this to them just represents another example of where this mod has completely failed to meet its requirement of actually integrating new players into the game.

Credge · 03-08-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWetMule

Im sorry, but that works for CTF too, if you took that away you'd still have AvD leagues, the game itself wouldn't collapse, it'd just lose 1/3 of its player base dependant on what you play mostly, is what makes a map a "want" more than a necessity. Also, there was skill map CONTESTS, which are essentially leagues, based off of advanced jumps, doing them in a minimum, out doing somebody, having more flare. Skills maps also draw in a relatively big crowd.

EDIT: I'm aware everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but that opinion is what makes a certain game type a want or a necessity

Skill maps draw in a crowd of players that are already familiar with them. Very few people look at FF and say "Oh hey yeah skill maps!" It just doesn't happens.

Your analogy is also false because AVD and CTF are core. TF games thrive off of both modes and any game that is exclusive to one, or favors one more, will lose its flavor rather fast. Or, if a TF game doesn't really focus on either you're left with a rather shallow shell of a game.

Pebbles · 03-08-2008, 02:35 AM

newbies are already way behind the times cause this game is almost a direct port of a game thats what 10+ years old?

richard nixon · 03-08-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pebbles

newbies are already way behind the times cause this game is almost a direct port of a game thats what 10+ years old?

I think I see (or used to see) more players come in and complain about the graphics and how hard it is to win/not get owned. So I agree with the WetMule.

Actually I remember showing my friend the game and he saw me conc jumped and asked me how to do it. So I showed him how to do it on well in a public server. He got frustrated and then left and start up the map himself so he can conc. He had quite a lot of fun with it. Although that wasn't enough to get the lazy pigfarmer into actually playing it.

TheWetMule · 03-08-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge

Skill maps draw in a crowd of players that are already familiar with them. Very few people look at FF and say "Oh hey yeah skill maps!" It just doesn't happens.

Your analogy is also false because AVD and CTF are core. TF games thrive off of both modes and any game that is exclusive to one, or favors one more, will lose its flavor rather fast. Or, if a TF game doesn't really focus on either you're left with a rather shallow shell of a game.

People don't join FF and go "Oh hey yeah skill maps!" because skill maps are a unique gametype to this game, CTF and AVD are in near enough every game I can remember, or some sort of point capture.

Player · 03-08-2008, 12:24 PM

Not that this proves anything, but I know people who have only ever played skills maps for TFC, going nowhere near ctf /avd game modes.

Paft · 03-08-2008, 02:16 PM

Sorry, stopped reading after first post. What the ball bashing bevs are you todgers waffling on about.

It's skills, it's supposed to be hard hard hard.

03-07-2008, 08:04 PM	#62
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	yep...I agree. I'll join and help out as much as I can. Start up the thread when you get a chance! __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

03-07-2008, 10:04 PM	#67
Damascus Comic Artist D&A Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I say we need a server that's titled "Newbie Helper". And in that, we need a map that uses textures to help newbies how to conce, pipe jump, etc. __________________

03-07-2008, 10:14 PM	#68
greenday5494 Holy shit, thats kerrigan! D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Class/Position: D, whatever the team needs, usually engy Gametype: AvD Affiliations: None Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	such as a training level that is being worked on by squeek __________________ http://static.adrive.com/images/ads/...rbo_468x60.gif DAN MAPES!

03-08-2008, 02:16 PM	#75
Paft Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK - http://forums.fortress-forever.com Class/Position: [O] Med Gametype: CTF/Skills Posts Rated Helpful 67 Times	Sorry, stopped reading after first post. What the ball bashing bevs are you todgers waffling on about. It's skills, it's supposed to be hard hard hard. __________________ TFC Resource TFC/FF/TF2 customs at: ZZUBYTTIHS - www.tfcgaschamber.com - www.ozfortress.com - www.fpsbanana.com - mrclan.com - TFC Essentials Jan 2012

03-07-2008, 09:09 PM	#65
TheWetMule Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England, Midlands Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Im sorry, but that works for CTF too, if you took that away you'd still have AvD leagues, the game itself wouldn't collapse, it'd just lose 1/3 of its player base dependant on what you play mostly, is what makes a map a "want" more than a necessity. Also, there was skill map CONTESTS, which are essentially leagues, based off of advanced jumps, doing them in a minimum, out doing somebody, having more flare. Skills maps also draw in a relatively big crowd. EDIT: I'm aware everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but that opinion is what makes a certain game type a want or a necessity

03-08-2008, 02:35 AM	#71
Pebbles Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	newbies are already way behind the times cause this game is almost a direct port of a game thats what 10+ years old?

03-08-2008, 12:24 PM	#74
Player D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Europe Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Not that this proves anything, but I know people who have only ever played skills maps for TFC, going nowhere near ctf /avd game modes.

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