why removed infection spreading?

[KubeDawg]

kick/ban also works for people purposly not following the server rules...

[greenday5494]

exactly, i think spreading should stay, but add anti-infection spawn idoits functions.

[Surrealistik]

Griefers are for hosts and admins to deal with. You don't start removing aspects of the game due to the fact that the occasional llama abuses them.

Admins can't be on 24/7 to deal with this problem, and abuse of the feature is hardly restricted to the occasional llama. It is in actuality fairly commonplace. Inadvertant team infections from respawn huggers are also very common and almost as annoying.

Again, if you want to go that route, you gotta remove grenades and the ability to push each other around too. Then the llamas cant do anything - just like they did in TF2. Tis the exact same line of thinking.

Not at all. As I've mentioned earlier, the potential for abuse, and the consequences are unparallelled when it comes to the spreadable infection. No other game mechanism save possibly spawn blocking with the engineer's buildables (which has been addressed as far as I know) has proven to be as problematic. Friendly grenades/sniper shots are annoying, but are nowhere near as bothersome as team infecting, nor as difficult to avoid.

[Iggy]

It has been suggested that people running into respawn when infected are treated as a hostile(enemy) player....I like this idea. It would keep the spawn huggers who care not who they infect, out of the area where they can do the most damage.

Also, what's so f'ing hard about someone on your team(like, maybe....YOU!) switching to medic to deal with infections? Nothing pisses an enemy medic off more than a medic who heals infections. I'm stunned that the playerbase will sit and bitch about infections spreading, but won't actually DO something about it. Medics actually CAN CURE INFECTIONS....or has this function been overlooked?
Hell, if 9/10ths of the team is on D anyhow....why not have a D medic?

I'm stunned by the lack of common sence here.

[Dr.Satan]

There is a built in command in the LUA that will account for "noannoyances" meaning nades / infection in respawn...the mapper just needs to put the trigger around the respawn and your good...they just haven't been. Will solve all the problems...

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by Surrealistik

Admins can't be on 24/7 to deal with this problem, and abuse of the feature is hardly restricted to the occasional llama. It is in actuality fairly commonplace. Inadvertant team infections from respawn huggers are also very common and almost as annoying.

Using large words like commonplace aren't going to make you seem anymore smarter than anyone else here, remember, this is the internet, k? No, admins cannot be there 24/7, but that's where the admins create a forum so users who get frustrated with these things can post a screenshot/demo of it happenning, and get the user's steamid and once an admin has a chance to get online, there goes another rule breaker. Simple as that.. You obviously haven't been to servers with quite a few admins, have you?

Originally Posted by Surrealistik

As I've mentioned earlier, the potential for abuse, and the consequences are unparallelled when it comes to the spreadable infection. No other game mechanism save possibly spawn blocking with the engineer's buildables (which has been addressed as far as I know) has proven to be as problematic. Friendly grenades/sniper shots are annoying, but are nowhere near as bothersome as team infecting, nor as difficult to avoid.

Potential for abuse? That's like calling us all criminals saying that EVERYONE automaticallly spawn infects or breaks similar rules... With proper adminstration of one's server, it can make for a great time after removing the idiots who cause problems. But saying that it has the potential for abuse does NOT mean they should remove the ability...

Admins are responsible for their own server. It's the same with hackers, racists, or just troublemakers in general... The feature to spread infections has been in TFC for over a decade... If it was a bad feature, don't you think they would have removed it? It's certainly not something like teleporters that were added years after the game was released...

[Surrealistik]

Using large words like commonplace aren't going to make you seem anymore smarter than anyone else here, remember, this is the internet, k? No, admins cannot be there 24/7, but that's where the admins create a forum so users who get frustrated with these things can post a screenshot/demo of it happenning, and get the user's steamid and once an admin has a chance to get online, there goes another rule breaker. Simple as that.. You obviously haven't been to servers with quite a few admins, have you?

First of all it's not my intention to come off as 'smarter' than anyone else here. If you want to play Freud and get into some profoundly inaccurate psychoanalysis, by all means, but keep it to yourself as opposed to sharing your 'findings' where they are entirely irrelevant.

That said, many servers if not most are not very actively policed, and/or do not feature a playerbase willing to take down SteamIDs. Were this not the case, infection griefing would hardly be the endemic behaviour it was. In theory your solution looks good. In practise, as everyone that has any appreciable experience with TF should know, it has been an utter failure.

Potential for abuse? That's like calling us all criminals saying that EVERYONE automaticallly spawn infects or breaks similar rules... With proper adminstration of one's server, it can make for a great time after removing the idiots who cause problems. But saying that it has the potential for abuse does NOT mean they should remove the ability...

Admins are responsible for their own server. It's the same with hackers, racists, or just troublemakers in general... The feature to spread infections has been in TFC for over a decade... If it was a bad feature, don't you think they would have removed it? It's certainly not something like teleporters that were added years after the game was released...

There are plenty of things about the TF franchise that could be improved and changed for the better, which have incredibly endured, and I'm sure in no small part due to change adverse veterans. FF for example, has deviated in many ways from the TF formula, and almost invariably these have been changes for the better, thus the persistance of a feature or lackthereof in no way is de facto proof that it is beyond alteration or removal.

Additionally to note the infection's vast, unparalleled potential for abuse is nowhere near equivalent to saying that 'everyone' is an abuser/griefer. Don't be silly. While potential for abuse isn't in and of itself a reason for removal of a feature, proven abuse certainly is, and infect griefing has been unfortunately a very prominent part of TF since its very beginnings.

[Dr.Satan]

but the fact of the matter is you will always have those idiots, but to police the entire game b/c of a few jackasses does 2 things:

1) Hurts the one's who DON'T do it

2) Gives the idiot what he wants

I agree with Kube...this falls on the admins of the server. It's not OUR fault some server's don't police their own dam server...that's their job, their money, etc. Let them handle it.

Not sure if this will be recognized but,

Did anyone ever play on either DAD clan servers or OGABS on TFC? These 2 servers were commited to "newb gaming" with silly rules like no concing with flag, no scripts, no bhopping. And they stayed alive for a VERY long time, b/c they were commited to policing their servers and enforcing their rules. It's all about the commitment!

[Major Lee High]

Originally Posted by Surrealistik

There are plenty of things about the TF franchise that could be improved and changed for the better,

While potential for abuse isn't in and of itself a reason for removal of a feature, proven abuse certainly is,

\

Thank you for agreeing spy's need to be removed. They cause way more grief and problem's than infect ever could. Just spy checking being gone would remove far more problems and annoyances. It's also absurd that you want the spy to be able to cause that kind of grief but think infection is some horrid problem.

Btw, I already mentioned earlier that noannoyances DOESN'T WORK. It only stops building atm (or last I checked in my map) it doesn't stop grenades and probably not infections (like it says it does). If that was working I bet it would be fine.

EDIT - just to make sure it is in there -

function noannoyances:oninfect( infect_entity )
	return EVENT_DISALLOWED 
end

Doesn't work I guess.

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Major Lee High

Btw, I already mentioned earlier that noannoyances DOESN'T WORK. It only stops building atm (or last I checked in my map) it doesn't stop grenades and probably not infections (like it says it does). If that was working I bet it would be fine.

Then just code one into your LUA...I'm sure one of the lua guys can lend a hand and make something that will work. Shit make it an instant kill if you attempt to cross the trigger while infected...that would really teach people!

*EDIT: Also have you tried since the patch?

[Private_Joker]

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

if you stop playing FF because a medic cant infect an entire team with one mouse click then good fucking riddance.

Agreed, but I still understand rejecting the "change things to appease" attitude. Though, I could never put it as eloquently as Skanky Butterpuss.

Skanky Butterpuss is corrupting our childrens!

-Joker

[Surrealistik]

but the fact of the matter is you will always have those idiots, but to police the entire game b/c of a few jackasses does 2 things:

1) Hurts the one's who DON'T do it

2) Gives the idiot what he wants

I agree with Kube...this falls on the admins of the server. It's not OUR fault some server's don't police their own dam server...that's their job, their money, etc. Let them handle it.

It's not just a 'few' jackasses that abuse spreadable infections. It's altogether too many. A slew is probably a much more accurate way of describing the # of people who deliberately team infect, either independantly, or in conjunction with an enemy medic.

Also the logic that you'll be doing what the abuser wants isn't compelling. The abuser cares chiefly about ruining the game for others. The last thing he wants is his ability to do that removed or limited.

Finally, admining has not been effective at curtailing this behaviour. Not in the slightest. To say otherwise is to be dishonest. If anything all these years of TF have taught us, it's that this solution simply doesn't work.

[JECS]

yeah there is definitely a better way to deal with it than removing it. i think one thing that should happen is that infections and fires should increase exponentially. that way even if they can make it back to the spawn they will die before they get to infect too many people. i think an instant kill brush at spawn is a neat idea too. like spawn is sort of a quarantined area and neutralizes any biological threats. :P fire should spread too.

its something tfc is known for you cant get rid of it..

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by Surrealistik

It's not just a 'few' jackasses that abuse spreadable infections. It's altogether too many. A slew is probably a much more accurate way of describing the # of people who deliberately team infect, either independantly, or in conjunction with an enemy medic.

Also the logic that you'll be doing what the abuser wants isn't compelling. The abuser cares chiefly about ruining the game for others. The last thing he wants is his ability to do that removed or limited.

Finally, admining has not been effective at curtailing this behaviour. Not in the slightest. To say otherwise is to be dishonest. If anything all these years of TF have taught us, it's that this solution simply doesn't work.

Your 'slew' argument really doesn't hold true considering that not EVERYONE spawn infects, or does things like this deliberately. Just because more people might do something wrong means the people who do something right get the same punishment? That's utter nonsense.

Same situation, because the last thing the abuser wants is that to be removed, does not mean that it should be removed, the ABUSER should be removed from the game...

Being an administrator can be tough, especially if you have tons of people playing in your server(s), but administering doesn't have to be done by just one person. I have a CS clan with over 30 members who all have full admin and are very responsible and responsive when it comes to getting the job done. Just because some might not be able to admin properly doesn't mean the user should be punished for something they didn't do.

Get rid of the troublemaker and this problem will be nonexistent, other than accidents. Accidents can be prevented by paying attention, and if the spawn brush is activated on a specific map and you go into spawn with the infection, it wouldn't infect anyone on your team. The minute you step out of the spawn is when the action starts back up...

Seriously, you are starting to bore me with 'oh we can't handle this, lets just get rid of it so we can make everybody suffer' speech...

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by Iggy

might as well do what TF2 did, and just remove the infection totally.

serious, the infecting is what the medic was born to do.. don't punish the rules of tf because of assholes... punish the assholes.. if you have a new teamate that runs into spawn spreading it... vote him/her off your team its that damn simple

[Rutabeggar]

I really think that someone should take the time and find a way to code some spawn lasers into the game that not only keep the other team out, but infected teammates as well. I'd do it, but I don't know a thing about mapping except it takes way too much patience >.<

[Saint Thoth]

The whole medic vs. counter medic thing was a key aspect of gameplay in TFC. The team that didn't bother to get a counter medic as an infection was spreading was in real trouble - but medic who did disinfect the team, wracked up the points like mad, and made the enemy medic's job hell.

I logged over 22 hours of play in FF 1.0 - not once did I see a team infecting llama. Not saying it doesn't happen - as I know it sure as hell happened in TFC, but it's rare enough that I never saw it - and even on All2Fort TFC servers - where it's common as hell - it's NOT THAT BAD. It's especially hard to pull off if you have a counter medic, unless you have someone on the enemy team actually working with you. (and that sort of coordination among llama’s is exceedingly rare.)

I could see making non-contagion infection a server side option (off by default, of course), but stopping the plague was a really fun aspect of the game, and it isn't fair to remove it from the whole community, without even giving us the option.

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by Saint Thoth

I could see making non-contagion infection a server side option

see this what should be done to please both sides of the rope...

[DrEvil]

My opinions are that infection spreading was a skill-less ability most often abused by griefers.

I can't count the number of times on a pub where some jackass gets himself infected and spends the round infecting teammates, and given friendly fire is off most of the time, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it short of chasing him around as a medic yourself or leaving the servers, both of which are retarded options.

Also, medic is an offensive class, infections most often hit defenders. It pulls a medic out of their role to run around and cure infected defenders. Without someone to cure, many people resort to suicides and such just out of spite for the medic. Curing is useless when their role typically means they aren't available to the category of people that need it. Pubbers might do the occasional medic on d, but not very often.

The first point being the most important one. FF is normally off, and there's nothing you can do about griefers if there's no admin. Show your leetness and infect people individually, nobody deserves free kills.

my 2c

If the pyro level 1 fire could spread to teammates, and last until you die, it'd be equally lame too. Same thing in this case, regardless of how long it's been around in TF.

[barronofhellion]

well then, another way around it is simple , make it so infected people can not pick up health, besides nothing in a common med-pack is going to cure poison anyways... the medic must work his wonders...
-edit the only reason medic is a attacker is because of the conc abuse, before people figured it out it originally was a mid-line role.. both offence and defence... that was back in the day though when tf 1st outed