Rocket speed?

[o_mescalito]

he's right ekim. he's been here all day and only 2 ppl got unpleasant words after all.

bahahah
i thought he wants to duel you in world of warcraft for a moment

[o_arsenalfc]

lol..

ok, i am going to refer to some things you said in another thread:

"Also, please dont think im a whiner, as i played it alot, and 99% of the time, i was number 1 on the scoreboard. So if i was struggling, everyone was struggling."

Number one on the scoreboard 99% of the time, good work chief.


"4) Engineers: could make "Sentry Guns". (they look great in the screenshots section btw). I had an issue with these things too... They seemed kind of pointless and annoying. You run into a room, and die almost instantly to a level 3 sentry... but you figure out where it is. All the not-so-bright-people on your team keep running in and dying, but anyone with a bit of consciousness, would just go back there and find the nearest wall infront of it. You side step out quickly, and fire at it, and then step back. Its too slow to react fast enough to shoot you. You do it 3 times, and its dead.

It therefore made sentry guns pointless imo. Once more and more people realised this, they never lasted more than a minute or so."

Sentryguns are far from pointless in tfc, and i am sure the same goes for qwtf. In pubs, and even in many match situations sgs go down very quickly, but this doesn't mean they are useless...far from it. Engineers are found in 80% of d setups on most maps...why would this be the case if the sg, their primary means of defending was pointless.

"5) Grenade jumps: got a bit out of hand imo. In 2fort4, alot of people learned how to rocket jump up onto the balcony. Im cool with that because you are injured after the jump, so it has its pros+cons. Medics could conc jump out of the water onto the balcony, and im cool with that too.

What i didnt like, was how you could grenade jump up the lift shaft after you took the flag. It just made escaping with the flag too easy imo."

Wait a second... did you just say that it was too easy to capture a flag on 2fort concing or grenade jumping out of the elevator shaft??? Even in a pub situation this is usually difficult (with atleast one competent defender in the basement). Again this shows that you may not be the most qualified to be making game altering suggestions.

Furthermore, you go on to say vehicles would not only be a good addition, but a necessary addition to team fortress gameplay to ensure more popularity. You compare games like hl2 ctf, unreal tournament and tfc when really the similarities are extremely superfluous. Sorry I can't take anything you have to say seriously at this point.

[o_mescalito]

Why thank thee mister! Ye're pretty horrible yourself

[o_ekim]

Keep digging...

[o_biter]

Hi, I've been lurking here for a while because I'm interested to see if tf will ever hit the bigtime again. Manalishi isn't clueless; he's just freaking old school. Maybe that makes him clueless, but the reason he doesn't remember bunnyhopping is because it wasn't around until way late in the game. It wouldn't surprise me if it hit qwtf and tfc about the same time, though my experience with tfc is limited. I can't put a year on it, but I believe The Nothing was the clan that first became dominant during the bunnyhopping era. I hadn't really gotten back into qwtf until after they'd moved on to q3f.

It's funny how bunnyhopping both killed and extended the life of qwtf.

To get back on topic, this thread is exaggerating the difference between tfc and qwtf. I played tfc the other day, and I thought hitting players with the rocket launcher was easier because of the blast radius and the fact that everyone is so much slower. The rocket speed was just right for the game.

The only game of qwtf you'll find these days is on a megatf server, which is so pathetic, but the rockets move probably twice as fast as they did in regtf, and it pains me to admit it, but they almost need to be because of how fast the bunnyhoppers are.

Anyway, I read somewhere that if bunnyhopping is faster in ff, then so will be the rockets. I'm not worried about it. What gives me the greatest hope for this mod is that they're basing a lot of the movement on qw (trimping, bunnyhop timing). Hopefully it achieves that same fluid feel.

[o_kam]

I don't really see how qwtf is faster than tfc, offence wise atleast. Sure no bhop cap, but you can't maintain high speeds throughout the base (and no ducking makes it harder to weave your way through some areas).
Plus the conc effect in qwtf screws you over afterwards.

It's like bursts of high speed whereas tfc is more constant.

[o_t00l]

I think another thing to consider is the removal of the 170% barrier that knocks you down to 100%... if the devs are looking to make bunnyhopping easier for everyone, as well as preventing the knock back the makes tfc bhop so difficult, then the game will definitely run faster than tfc. For this reason alone, I think the rocket speed should be increased.

Anyone that's gotten dominated by bhop.dll would know what I'm talking about and agree.

[o_kam]

From what i can remember, the entire game just ran faster than TFC. Running (without bunnyhopping or conc jumps etc) was faster, and rockets fired faster (maybe other weapons too).

No ducking was never an issue cause there was never any tight spaces or low ceilings. And it was always smooth and constant inside and out.

Yes, run speed might of been faster but the map scale was larger.

Yes, there are low ceilings that you can get caught on, such as well6 ramp room. It is somewhat of a skill to make sure you weren't jumping into them though.

[o_biter]

Yeah, scouts can't gain their bhing speed with a conc, but with their higher running speed and faster bh acceleration, a scout can be cooking in 3 or 4 jumps.

I never thought about the duck thing, but I guess for a bunnyhopping soldier, it depends on the map. On a map like h4rdcore you could capture the flag over and over again without losing your bh. On a map like 2fort5, however, you might have to use an rj to get your speed back once you drop down the elevator.

I played in a megatf quad (2vs2, ovsd) the other day, and these guys were ridiculous. They played all soldier, and of course they only picked maps that catered to bunnyhopping. They never stopped to fight, they would just take another rj/gj if you got in their way or shot them out of the air. I'm not saying it's the ideal way to play, but it's definitely much faster. At qwtf speed, 4 players can fill up maps like bam4, which is a good thing because you'll rarely find more than 3 other people to play with.

[o_afx]

A good comparison might be the amount of runs an attacker can get in on a similiar map, Ive never really seen a decent answer to this, Openfire tends to be a good comparison between q3f/etf and tfc, I should imagine tfc wins this when comparing scouts, but alas no openfire for qwtf.

Also manalishi you should be less defensive, on a forum not everyones going to agree with you, And afterall the very person you called a prick was proved to be correct afterall, Fair enough if you left the game before bhop became prevalent but it doesn't change the fact that it was possible.

[o_bokko]

I just wanted to add that manalishi seems completely clueless and I will know to ignore him from now on.

[o_radio]

Originally Posted by t00l

I think another thing to consider is the removal of the 170% barrier that knocks you down to 100%.

seconding this. i'm cool with 170% speedcap but please don't make it knock you down to 100%. that just sounds so wrong i can't even fathom how horrible it would feel.

[o_ghost]

Originally Posted by Afx

A good comparison might be the amount of runs an attacker can get in on a similiar map, Ive never really seen a decent answer to this, Openfire tends to be a good comparison between q3f/etf and tfc, I should imagine tfc wins this when comparing scouts, but alas no openfire for qwtf.

Also manalishi you should be less defensive, on a forum not everyones going to agree with you, And afterall the very person you called a prick was proved to be correct afterall, Fair enough if you left the game before bhop became prevalent but it doesn't change the fact that it was possible.

Hmmm, I didn't really get into league play in QWTF so I'm not sure what maps they usually run. Maybe someone with more experience there could help out.

[o_balls]

Originally Posted by radio

seconding this. i'm cool with 170% speedcap but please don't make it knock you down to 100%. that just sounds so wrong i can't even fathom how horrible it would feel.

He didnt mean that. He meant, the way TFC is at the moment if you reach the 170% bhop cap limit it resets and goes back to 100% speed, thus slowing you down... FF have already said they're sorting this so no need to worry. Btw, do you know how to bhop :P?

[Defrag]

The 'knockdown' in TFC isn't so bad when you learn to control it, but FF's bhopping has a different behaviour. The cap is elastic, meaning your velocity is smoothly retarded until you're under the cap once more.

[o_dammage]

Originally Posted by Defrag

The 'knockdown' in TFC isn't so bad when you learn to control it, but FF's bhopping has a different behaviour. The cap is elastic, meaning your velocity is smoothly retarded until you're under the cap once more.

Do you mean there won't be a way to instantly hold speed bigger than the cap you gained by some external boosts? awww. I see no point in capping speed only gainable (with exception of concs) by sacrificing hitpoints and armor (you can't accellerate by bhop more than the cap, your ass might need some grens for more speed )
Oh, well, I can't test the elastic cap, too, so i have no voice until I can test it :P

[o_player]

Speed cap = More skill. There is less running and more Dming which is much more fun

[o_swampthing]

Originally Posted by bokko

I just wanted to add that manalishi seems completely clueless and I will know to ignore him from now on.

Was that really necessary?

[o_3vil9rin]

Originally Posted by Defrag

The 'knockdown' in TFC isn't so bad when you learn to control it, but FF's bhopping has a different behaviour. The cap is elastic, meaning your velocity is smoothly retarded until you're under the cap once more.

Will a chop become viable or even possible in FF? So you could conc, chop then continue to b-hop above the speed cap for a short period? And you won't be penalised, as your speed will remain at the speed cap once its been slowed down. I'm not saying this is a bad thing or anything, just trying to get a heads up on how it will work, as the fact that mousewheel hoppers will be penalised will take some working around.

[o_dammage]

Originally Posted by Player

Speed cap = More skill. There is less running and more Dming which is much more fun

That's relative as all the skill ends up in dming. Not bad, but nothing special :P

Dammit, the idea is that you can get unnatural speeds only on costs of your own health - need speed? bhop, but you won't get faster than the cap. Want more speed? Pay. Want even more? Then pay more. Seems that people ignore that