Noo I was so close to converting you all to Christianity! - Page 4

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 10-07-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodingdude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salty Milkshake

Next time you get a Jehovas Witness or Mormon come knocking at your door you should let them in and find out. Then report back :P

Never!

I think I covered my actions concerning these people in other threads.

Ugh...if you have a fascination for pain...do it once. I just tell these people that I made my decision to be a Christian many years ago and I am not interested in having a discussion with them now or in the future for purely "academic" reasons.

**mervaka** · 10-08-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Levy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salty Milkshake

The independent today is saying that apparently God told Bush to go to war against Iraq, God has got a lot to answer for imo

it's also worth noting that the White House strenuously denies that this was ever said and also that the person who made the claim is some kind of arab diplomat.

just to keep things balanced y'know.

and there was more of a justification for the crusades than there was for this war in iraq...

even though i work in a newsagent, i didnt see the guardian (i think it was the guardian that headlined this) till when my shift started today at 5. until then, it was hearsay from this thread

o_binarylife · 10-08-2005, 02:51 AM

In regards to God being on the side of war...

God really is never on any side of any war. Even the bible doesn't say that god chose sides in human battles. Murder is condemned as a mortal sin and in most religeons is punishable by eternal suffering of some kind. The crusades insisted god was on their side, but since god no longer (or never did) speak to us he couldn't exactly step in and correct anyone.
That said, God thinks I'm right and all of you are fools.

In regards to answering JWs...
I've always wanted to answer the door buck naked and then invite them in. If they come I would naturally have as long a conversation as they could tolerate with me being naked. If it became too aggrivating I would simply rise and point at the door.

o_salty milkshake · 10-08-2005, 11:19 AM

faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.

delusion - A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 10-08-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

In regards to God being on the side of war...

God really is never on any side of any war. Even the bible doesn't say that god chose sides in human battles. Murder is condemned as a mortal sin and in most religeons is punishable by eternal suffering of some kind. The crusades insisted god was on their side, but since god no longer (or never did) speak to us he couldn't exactly step in and correct anyone.
That said, God thinks I'm right and all of you are fools.

In regards to answering JWs...
I've always wanted to answer the door buck naked and then invite them in. If they come I would naturally have as long a conversation as they could tolerate with me being naked. If it became too aggrivating I would simply rise and point at the door.

Actually that's not true. There numerous times in the Old Testament when God directed the Jews to enter a particular area and kill every man, woman, child and beast in that area.

Also, people tend to confuse MURDER and KILLING. The direct translation of the commandment that relates is THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

o_binarylife · 10-08-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

There numerous times in the Old Testament when God directed the Jews to enter a particular area and kill every man, woman, child and beast in that area.

This goes back to the nomadic way of the Jews. While the religeon itself may have started in Cannan (You'll hve to forgive the spelling there) the people were still nomads at the time of it's birth. the religeon is 6,000 years old and human evolution back then was still working its magic. You are right though. I was thinking more along the lines of recorded wars than raids of a specific area.

Not to say that God never asked anyone to kill. He did that quite frequently. (Cain and Abel)

o_zsilver_fox · 10-09-2005, 08:58 PM

He also had women captured to be sex slaves.

Gotta love this God guy. He's a sadistic hypocritic fucker... like me.

Now, to get serious...

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/index.html

'Nuff said.

Now, to get really serious...

I use to be a Christian. I'm now Agnostic. Why?

Because there is too little evidence supporting this "Christianity" crap. Over time, I opened up my mind a little and decided to realize what really existed, and came to drop religion.

What has it caused? Murder, rape, incest (God killing all the first borns of Egypt, and hardening Phaoroh's heart {is it just me, or does the Bible rarely get into specifics with names?}, the conquering of peoples and then taking the women for sex slaves, and I doubt he made another woman for Able to screw). What will it continue to cause? Murder, prejudice, wars, anarchy, tyranny.

I'll back my statements up if you wish, but I ask you think about them a little first. If we only have 10 "Commandments" that Christians can't decide upon, and the promise that if we're truly sorry and repent, it's a Get Out of Jail Free card, what's going to keep people from rising up and becoming dictators? What's going to keep them from ordering the murders of innocent people because it went against ONE thing in the Bible?

I'm not anti-Christian. One of my best friends is one. But, I'm anti-Bible Thumper Without the T. Why? I've been verbally attacked for being agnostic, for being bisexual, and for not following Christianity divinely. My mother even came at me because of the fact that I was born bisexual.

Faith is the belief in something with little or no proof, aka refusing to listen to evidence saying otherwise, IMO. In other words, it's a hope, a senseless hope people hold onto because they can't stand to face the truth.

Milk and cookies after the discussion.

o_deadly furby · 10-10-2005, 02:25 AM

The REAL reason we went to war in Iraq

o_etzell · 10-10-2005, 02:49 AM

I agree, Furby. We need all of the broken images for ourselves!

o_general levy · 10-10-2005, 04:07 AM

I would like to ask you a an honest question Innoc - I am an Orthodox Christian by birth and I think the message and theme of the gospels (forgiveness) is timeless, but I find the message from the old testament is less so. How do you reconcile the sometimes conflicting messages?

o_binarylife · 10-10-2005, 05:48 AM

Quote:

I would like to ask you a an honest question Innoc - I am an Orthodox Christian by birth and I think the message and theme of the gospels (forgiveness) is timeless, but I find the message from the old testament is less so. How do you reconcile the sometimes conflicting messages?

Sorry Levy, but even though the question wasn't directed to me, I felt a desire to give my opinion. Regard it as you wish.

To me the conflicting messages are created from a very simple, very straight forward situation. Two different groups of people wrote each one. The bible was not constructed of works from the same writers as the Torah was. There's also a different target audience with the bible. A newer, younger generation of people who have already abandonded hope for their present religeon. They elected a different leader at this point who promised bigger and better things for them.

Of course, in order to be able to agree with me you would need to not believe that God had a hand in the creation of either. For those of you who have such faith, I personally couldn't give you an honest answer. I could give you a damn good lie, but that doesn't exactly help you.

Two different eyes I guess.

Sorry again Levy, just felt the desire.

o_salty milkshake · 10-10-2005, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

My mother even came at me because of the fact that I was born bisexual.

WTF

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 10-10-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Levy

I would like to ask you a an honest question Innoc - I am an Orthodox Christian by birth and I think the message and theme of the gospels (forgiveness) is timeless, but I find the message from the old testament is less so. How do you reconcile the sometimes conflicting messages?

As Christians our lives are saved and (hopefully) defined by Jesus's action in the New Testament. The Old Testament can be viewed, in a sense, as history. As those events leading up to the the birth, life and death of Jesus. It also serves as testament to the fulfilled promise and prophecy of the Messiah. That is one of a few signficant differences between Christians and the Jews. The Jews do not believe that the Messiah has yet come.

Edit: Silverfox, I read anger in your post. I've seen many people carrying such a burden and their quality of life sucks. Seek help...you'll be glad you did.

o_binarylife · 10-10-2005, 04:54 PM

Silver, it's good to see that you know your truth. You can't let a figure from thousands of years ago rule your life today. Expecialy when it doesn't apply. There's a lot of paranoia and a lot hate put into those books. While there is also love, certain key passages stand out.

While it may not help, I agree with you.

Also while it may not help, there are more than 10 commandments. The Jews demonstrate this by tying the ropes on their talice 210 times by hand, in preparation for their bar/bot-mitzvah. There are a great dealo f commandments, just 10 key ones that get extra focus, and 200 ones that are aloud to be easily forgotton.

o_[slayer]beaver_shots · 10-11-2005, 12:29 AM

RobG

Quote:

Originally Posted by [SLAYER

Beaver_shots]belivers tend to share there views with me even if I ask them not too.

Would you say that this thread is an example of that?

No, this thread was not created for me personaly.

o_salty milkshake · 10-11-2005, 12:53 AM

Ahhh well, at least Rob's arguments are reasonably well thought out and articulated, even if I don't agree with them.

Anyone seen the new Guiness advert? It features 3 guiness drinkers going backwards through time, de-evolving as they go. Blasphemous! :P

o_[slayer]beaver_shots · 10-11-2005, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |404|Innoc-TPF-

Quote:

Originally Posted by [SLAYER

Beaver_shots]Not what all chirstains do... true. What alot of them do? Nothing is absolute. Your church dose not look for new members? Your not at all encoraged to speek to people about the bible? Well I would say your not liveing up to what jesuse wants you to do according to the bible. But then agine its more fun to pick and chose what parts of the bible you want to go by. By all means though dont start preaching to people, Im with you on that part.

Let me put this to rest, what I ment was: In MY experience belivers tend to share there views with me even if I ask them not too. They try to convince me they are right and I am wrong. As for me AND the other non-beliveing people I know, (agine this is my personal experience alone, not speeking for the whole world here. I have to put that after ever statement now I think) none of us would ever try and convince some one that what they believe in is wrong. If you believe I say good for you! If you would like to chat about it, with out trying to sway me (impossable it seems) then we can chat about it! Only then will I tell you what I belive or dont believe, only if you ask me.

No, my church does not believe in aggressive proselytizing and there are a number of them out there. If people are receptive and interested they know where to find me. I make no secret of the fact that I am a Christian and I have had people come to have a sincere conversation. My life shows as a success or failure in how I manifest myself and what I have learned.

But to ignore the fact that I am human would be a fatal mistake. Do I react quickly and strongly to the ignorant and disrespectful cretins that cross my path? Yep. Would I have any compunction about killing an intruder in my house? Nope. We all settle up when it's over and stand judgement. Like any of us I will have things to answer for but I do try to adhere to the principles of my faith. Even Job had days where he struggled.

ok nice job side steping my point. You guys are really good at that! "my church does not believe in aggressive proselytizing" Who said aggressive proselytizing? All I said was dose your church look for new members? Do they encorage you to speak with people about the bible? That is far from aggressive proselytizing. The fack remaines that its your credo to turn people to god. Jesues tasked his followers to go out and make disciples out of all the peoples of all the lands. Its all in there just read people!

Now to side step evan farther! you switch to talking about what you do personaly, how your just an open door and you dont strike up conversations about the bible unless some one askes you too. Good for you! I wasent talking about you though, I was talking about the group you are attached too. How could I talk about you I dont know the first thing about you! All I know about you is you seem to post intelligent things on the bords most of the time. I thought this post of yours was out of caricature.

As a side note
Im really alot like all of you you guys. You pick and chose what parts of the bible you want to go by I.E. The old testiment is hog wash and the new is all facts. I just think of the whole thing as hog wash. Funny stories from the olden times just like the old testy to you.

o_deadly furby · 10-11-2005, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etzell

I agree, Furby. We need all of the broken images for ourselves!

Yeah, sorry about that.

The REAL reason we went to war in Iraq

Circuitous · 10-11-2005, 01:18 AM

Aww, that's adorable.

Now if only the president could declare war.

Jiggles · 10-11-2005, 02:46 AM

Not to get in on a pointless political debate, but the power to "declare war" has really become historically irrelevent.

10-11-2005, 01:18 AM	#79
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Aww, that's adorable. Now if only the president could declare war. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

10-08-2005, 02:51 AM	#63
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	In regards to God being on the side of war... God really is never on any side of any war. Even the bible doesn't say that god chose sides in human battles. Murder is condemned as a mortal sin and in most religeons is punishable by eternal suffering of some kind. The crusades insisted god was on their side, but since god no longer (or never did) speak to us he couldn't exactly step in and correct anyone. That said, God thinks I'm right and all of you are fools. In regards to answering JWs... I've always wanted to answer the door buck naked and then invite them in. If they come I would naturally have as long a conversation as they could tolerate with me being naked. If it became too aggrivating I would simply rise and point at the door.

10-08-2005, 11:19 AM	#64
o_salty milkshake Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Coventry, UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust. delusion - A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence

10-09-2005, 08:58 PM	#67
o_zsilver_fox Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	He also had women captured to be sex slaves. Gotta love this God guy. He's a sadistic hypocritic fucker... like me. Now, to get serious... http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/index.html 'Nuff said. Now, to get really serious... I use to be a Christian. I'm now Agnostic. Why? Because there is too little evidence supporting this "Christianity" crap. Over time, I opened up my mind a little and decided to realize what really existed, and came to drop religion. What has it caused? Murder, rape, incest (God killing all the first borns of Egypt, and hardening Phaoroh's heart {is it just me, or does the Bible rarely get into specifics with names?}, the conquering of peoples and then taking the women for sex slaves, and I doubt he made another woman for Able to screw). What will it continue to cause? Murder, prejudice, wars, anarchy, tyranny. I'll back my statements up if you wish, but I ask you think about them a little first. If we only have 10 "Commandments" that Christians can't decide upon, and the promise that if we're truly sorry and repent, it's a Get Out of Jail Free card, what's going to keep people from rising up and becoming dictators? What's going to keep them from ordering the murders of innocent people because it went against ONE thing in the Bible? I'm not anti-Christian. One of my best friends is one. But, I'm anti-Bible Thumper Without the T. Why? I've been verbally attacked for being agnostic, for being bisexual, and for not following Christianity divinely. My mother even came at me because of the fact that I was born bisexual. Faith is the belief in something with little or no proof, aka refusing to listen to evidence saying otherwise, IMO. In other words, it's a hope, a senseless hope people hold onto because they can't stand to face the truth. Milk and cookies after the discussion.

10-10-2005, 02:25 AM	#68
o_deadly furby Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cell Block 17 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The REAL reason we went to war in Iraq

10-10-2005, 02:49 AM	#69
o_etzell Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I agree, Furby. We need all of the broken images for ourselves!

10-10-2005, 04:07 AM	#70
o_general levy Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I would like to ask you a an honest question Innoc - I am an Orthodox Christian by birth and I think the message and theme of the gospels (forgiveness) is timeless, but I find the message from the old testament is less so. How do you reconcile the sometimes conflicting messages?

10-10-2005, 04:54 PM	#74
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Silver, it's good to see that you know your truth. You can't let a figure from thousands of years ago rule your life today. Expecialy when it doesn't apply. There's a lot of paranoia and a lot hate put into those books. While there is also love, certain key passages stand out. While it may not help, I agree with you. Also while it may not help, there are more than 10 commandments. The Jews demonstrate this by tying the ropes on their talice 210 times by hand, in preparation for their bar/bot-mitzvah. There are a great dealo f commandments, just 10 key ones that get extra focus, and 200 ones that are aloud to be easily forgotton.

10-11-2005, 12:53 AM	#76
o_salty milkshake Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Coventry, UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ahhh well, at least Rob's arguments are reasonably well thought out and articulated, even if I don't agree with them. Anyone seen the new Guiness advert? It features 3 guiness drinkers going backwards through time, de-evolving as they go. Blasphemous! :P

10-11-2005, 02:46 AM	#80
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Not to get in on a pointless political debate, but the power to "declare war" has really become historically irrelevent.

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