Sniper: Removal from CTF maps? - Page 4

**squeek.** · 03-04-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSCUJO

pickups are 'clan style' matchs organized within the Pickups IRC channel... basically a pick is when u want to play a clan match with clan match rules, but your clan mates aren't around. so 8 random people form different clans and such all join a pool, and a computer randomly assigns the teams, and they play eachother.

its jsut a way to play clan games without getting together a whole bunch of your clan mates.

Exactly. (see http://www.ffpickup.com/#faq)

Mudfrog · 03-05-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

One shot kill is only fun for the killer. Why not have the sniper adhere to what every other class in the game has to deal with?

I consider aids to be a one shot kill, medics can run up behind you give you aids and you pretty much are going to die.

What about the spy stabbing you in the back, thats a one shot kill..

SSCUJO · 03-05-2008, 08:59 PM

i agree with that. Saying that a one shot kill is only fun for the sniper may be true, but its the other persons job to avoid putting themselves in the position of being sniped, just like avoiding a granade or sg...

saying that the sniper doesn't have to go through what every other class has to go through is also rediculus. The sniper is basically the only class that cannont defend themselves agianst any sort of close ranged attack. the only chance for survival is from a distance. i would say thats pretty unfair for the sniper, and that 1 shotkills would be a pretty good blanace to that weakness.

myersjr · 03-05-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSCUJO

pickups are 'clan style' matchs organized within the Pickups IRC channel... basically a pick is when u want to play a clan match with clan match rules, but your clan mates aren't around. so 8 random people form different clans and such all join a pool, and a computer randomly assigns the teams, and they play eachother.

its jsut a way to play clan games without getting together a whole bunch of your clan mates.

That sounds pretty cool im gonna have to get in on some of those..

Mudfrog · 03-05-2008, 09:57 PM

Yea it's getting pretty sad.. I was just kicked from the eo server for sniping too well and when I rejoined they had completely turned off the sniper class..

Agent Buckshot Moose · 03-05-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

Yea it's getting pretty sad.. I was just kicked from the eo server for sniping too well and when I rejoined they had completely turned off the sniper class..

I somehow don't believe that.

Mudfrog · 03-05-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

I somehow don't believe that.

You can believe whatever you want to believe.. why would I lie about that?

Go log into their server and see if you can play sniper.

Agent Buckshot Moose · 03-05-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

You can believe whatever you want to believe.. why would I lie about that?

Go log into their server and see if you can play sniper.

Well given the fact I'm IN :e0: and have admin access to the server, I still don't believe any of them would turn off Sniper just because they're getting pissed. I snipe them out of the sky all the time.

There has to be more to this story...

Mudfrog · 03-05-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

Well given the fact I'm IN :e0: and have admin access to the server, I still don't believe any of them would turn off Sniper just because they're getting pissed. I snipe them out of the sky all the time.

There has to be more to this story...

Thats fine.. I joined while they were playing monkey and started sniping. After a while a couple guys kept saying they were getting tired of snipers, then some guy playing as (2) said I'm about to turn off sniper altogether.. a few snipes later I was gone and when I joined I could no longer play sniper and no one else on my team was sniper either so I know it wasn't limited to 1 or 2 slots..

I dunno, all I know is I'll continue to play servers where this stuff doesn't happen, nothing aganist you.

**squeek.** · 03-05-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

I consider aids to be a one shot kill, medics can run up behind you give you aids and you pretty much are going to die.

What about the spy stabbing you in the back, thats a one shot kill..

Ok, then. An unrestricted one-shot instakill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CUJO

saying that the sniper doesn't have to go through what every other class has to go through is also rediculus. The sniper is basically the only class that cannont defend themselves agianst any sort of close ranged attack. the only chance for survival is from a distance. i would say thats pretty unfair for the sniper, and that 1 shotkills would be a pretty good blanace to that weakness.

Yeah, the sniper is (or was in 1.11 perhaps) a balanced class. No doubt about it. To me, his role is flawed. My stance is that any changes to the sniper should be a complete reworking of the class so that it "fits" more with CTF gameplay (not just adding a secondary grenade).

I'm fine with bouncing it back to 1.11 standards and leaving it there, though.

myersjr · 03-05-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

Ok, then. An unrestricted one-shot instakill.

Yeah, the sniper is (or was in 1.11 perhaps) a balanced class. No doubt about it. To me, his role is flawed. My stance is that any changes to the sniper should be a complete reworking of the class so that it "fits" more with CTF gameplay (not just adding a secondary grenade).

I'm fine with bouncing it back to 1.11 standards and leaving it there, though.

Once again, the problem lies with not knowing which way to take the sniper. In order to decide this, one has to ask the right questions, namely, what kind of role do you want the sniper to play?? How tough do you want him to be?? What weapons does he need in order to be good at whatever you want him to do?? etc..Until you can get a decent consensus on these questions, you will be forever "chasing your tail", so to speak..its one thing to say, the class needs to be worked or removed, but you have to figure out what to do with him and how to do it. If you just removed him from the game, thats just crappy. A good sniper is worth his weight in protection, even inside your own fort or flag room. IMHO

**squeek.** · 03-05-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myersjr

Until you can get a decent consensus on these questions, you will be forever "chasing your tail", so to speak..its one thing to say, the class needs to be worked or removed, but you have to figure out what to do with him and how to do it.

Hence my suggestion earlier that gained me some verbal abuse.

Jiggles · 03-05-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

I guess radical changes will never be accepted by the specific community it affects, ever. Even a shorter pipe fuse was too much for demoman players.

The sad truth.

reaper18 · 03-05-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The sad truth.

agreed
although, that how its always been, even in r/l

richard nixon · 03-05-2008, 11:47 PM

Only thing I hate about the sniper is sniper wars. When I pick sniper class I want to take out SGs that may be in view or to try and shoot down and escaping flag capper and to slow down the offense if possible. But its always been like this in FF and TFC where you will constantly be distracted by the other sniper and end up in those boring sniper wars. I especially hate it in well/2fort/aardvark.

I was going to say implement a way that makes sniper wars less common so they could focus on the battlefield, but that would just make people whine more.

SSCUJO · 03-05-2008, 11:51 PM

well its pretty easy to get around sniper wars (i hate them too) in maps like ardvark there are tons of places to stand in the midmap where you are not visible to the enemy sniper deck but still have shots at enemys going to your base.

the main thing is to not have sniper battlements opposite eachother, this will limit sniperwars dramatically, if you put a wall or a zigzag in the middle of the map so that you can't see the enemy battlements from your own then it would work out great!

basically what im trying to say is, sniperwars are avoidable, everymap has an alternate place to snipe, some are harder than others (2fort) but all maps have them.

Jiggles · 03-06-2008, 12:08 AM

Yeah, I agree maps should change. The reason I don't like 2fort isn't that I hate the map itself (though I'm not a huge fan), but rather I dislike the undue influence it has exerted over mappers. The "two opposing bases with battlements directly facing each other separated by a medium-to-large sized yard" describes so many TFC maps.

Still, I'd like the Sniper to be able to do more than just be a long-range killer.

SSCUJO · 03-06-2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Still, I'd like the Sniper to be able to do more than just be a long-range killer.

thats the definiation of a sniper...

Jiggles · 03-06-2008, 12:24 AM

And the definition of a Medic is one who heals (not concing through the air, killing sgs, and grabbing flags). And the definition of a Scout is one who...scouts...

I'm not saying get rid of the Sniper's ranged-killing powers, but if that's all he has, he will never be particularly useful on the majority of maps.

SSCUJO · 03-06-2008, 12:37 AM

I can agree with that, but the only way you can make a sniper useful inside is making him strong enough to take granades, and powerful enough to kill in 1 hit (cuse indoors close range, by the time the second shot is charged the enemy has left the room with the flag.) not to mention hitting a concing target in doors once is extremely difficult, but twice in a row is boardering on luck.

View Poll Results: Should the sniper be banned from CTF maps?
Yes, the devs should remove the sniper class from CTF style maps altogether.	17	16.67%
No, server admins should be the ones to make that decision.	21	20.59%
No, the sniper class should stay exactly as is.	23	22.55%
No, the sniper class should try to be improved by the devs to allow him to take on a better roll.	41	40.20%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

03-05-2008, 08:59 PM	#63
SSCUJO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i agree with that. Saying that a one shot kill is only fun for the sniper may be true, but its the other persons job to avoid putting themselves in the position of being sniped, just like avoiding a granade or sg... saying that the sniper doesn't have to go through what every other class has to go through is also rediculus. The sniper is basically the only class that cannont defend themselves agianst any sort of close ranged attack. the only chance for survival is from a distance. i would say thats pretty unfair for the sniper, and that 1 shotkills would be a pretty good blanace to that weakness.

03-05-2008, 09:57 PM	#65
Mudfrog Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Virginia Class/Position: D - Sniper, Demo, Soldier Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yea it's getting pretty sad.. I was just kicked from the eo server for sniping too well and when I rejoined they had completely turned off the sniper class..

03-05-2008, 11:47 PM	#75
richard nixon Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Only thing I hate about the sniper is sniper wars. When I pick sniper class I want to take out SGs that may be in view or to try and shoot down and escaping flag capper and to slow down the offense if possible. But its always been like this in FF and TFC where you will constantly be distracted by the other sniper and end up in those boring sniper wars. I especially hate it in well/2fort/aardvark. I was going to say implement a way that makes sniper wars less common so they could focus on the battlefield, but that would just make people whine more.

03-05-2008, 11:51 PM	#76
SSCUJO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	well its pretty easy to get around sniper wars (i hate them too) in maps like ardvark there are tons of places to stand in the midmap where you are not visible to the enemy sniper deck but still have shots at enemys going to your base. the main thing is to not have sniper battlements opposite eachother, this will limit sniperwars dramatically, if you put a wall or a zigzag in the middle of the map so that you can't see the enemy battlements from your own then it would work out great! basically what im trying to say is, sniperwars are avoidable, everymap has an alternate place to snipe, some are harder than others (2fort) but all maps have them.

03-06-2008, 12:08 AM	#77
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yeah, I agree maps should change. The reason I don't like 2fort isn't that I hate the map itself (though I'm not a huge fan), but rather I dislike the undue influence it has exerted over mappers. The "two opposing bases with battlements directly facing each other separated by a medium-to-large sized yard" describes so many TFC maps. Still, I'd like the Sniper to be able to do more than just be a long-range killer.

03-06-2008, 12:24 AM	#79
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	And the definition of a Medic is one who heals (not concing through the air, killing sgs, and grabbing flags). And the definition of a Scout is one who...scouts... I'm not saying get rid of the Sniper's ranged-killing powers, but if that's all he has, he will never be particularly useful on the majority of maps.

03-06-2008, 12:37 AM	#80
SSCUJO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I can agree with that, but the only way you can make a sniper useful inside is making him strong enough to take granades, and powerful enough to kill in 1 hit (cuse indoors close range, by the time the second shot is charged the enemy has left the room with the flag.) not to mention hitting a concing target in doors once is extremely difficult, but twice in a row is boardering on luck.

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