Over pressure.

[Bully]

Bring back grens imo, just make em less damaging. Simple solution

[XPelargos]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

Tbh I'd rather have a working [Insert existing weapon/ability here] than removing features like largos suggests as well as rather than adding new features.

Basically, fix what is broke. Once that is done, THEN work on new ideas/mechanics/weapons/etcetcetc. But don't remove something unless there is very little chance to be able to fix it. The overpressure seems like a relatively easy fix, plus whatever magic squeek or the other devs do.

By this logic, OP should never have been added, since there were still things to fix, right?

Therefore, it should be removed.

Quod Era Demonstratum'd.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by XPelargos

By this logic, OP should never have been added, since there were still things to fix, right?

Therefore, it should be removed.

Quod Era Demonstratum'd.

But it IS an existing feature, therefore should not be removed.

[CaptainAhab]

Reducing speed while maintaining air control and having some *poof* effect on the heavy's screen ain't a bad idea, though I feel that overpressure should differ more from the slowgren (not merely slow down the opponent, should do something slightly different but nevertheless useful).

[AfterShock]

I quite like the idea of overpressure becoming a short slowgren around the heavy, if people survive it then they can continue their run/conc etc, might not be so frustrating.

With the current slowgren mechanics (further away = less slow) it would introduce some more depth with the accuracy of it too.

For predictions sake you could also add in a short charge up time (0.5s or so) so the heavy would need to predict when a conc is going to go off and scouts can juke him into using it.

[Trailer]

I don't really like the idea of making an ability do the exact same thing as a secondary grenade =\. I say keep the current mechanics, just alter it a little.

[XPelargos]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

But it IS an existing feature, therefore should not be removed.

Do you see the cognitive dissonance of your argument?

"Don't add or remove features, fix what you have"
"Oh, you added a feature? Well, fix what you have now."
lather, rinse, repeat.

Less is more in games, guys. Less is more.

[KubeDawg]

Again you fail to see my point. Any existing feature FF has, regardless of when it was added, should be fixed before continuing to create new features.

No cognitive dissonance in that at all.

[XPelargos]

And you fail to see mine.

You're saying your "Don't add/remove" motto only applies to 2.44?

And sometimes the best fix is a straight up removal. Example: Caltrops and Teleporters.

Meanwhile you have made posts in the suggestions forum for adding new grenades, so yes, cognitive dissonance, etc. etc.

[Trailer]

The sky is blue.

[Bully]

What a lot of this comes down to is how an "area denial" mechanic is implimented within the game and the level of it's effect it has on the recieving players.

OP or slow grens and caltrops or mirvs, all slow down a player in given area either in time or damage.

Caltrops were never implimented effectively, not even a threat in the first place as they were too small, jump over em. So that didn't "fix" anything.

Where ever the game design moves to next it ain't gonna please everyone. But i believe what is important is how people percieve how it's mechanics are artistically implimented and how the player is informed of what is happening. It's about representation of what does one thing say and the other doesn't.

Grens = initial fear and instant damage done. What do people feel after this experience against the next ?

Ball of spacey slow stuff or a puff of gas = "yeah lets jump in i wont get hurt much" but your still trapped and recieving any given damage over that time.

To me a death from a gren is "shit i was in the wrong place" respawn, carry on. Slowgrens and OP make me feel frustrated, i don't know how or in what way but they just do.

TFC artistic direction was "semi realistic" war weapons. FF is now going in a more "space aged" direction. Is this intentional dev's ?

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by XPelargos

Meanwhile you have made posts in the suggestions forum for adding new grenades, so yes, cognitive dissonance, etc. etc.

As something that will need to be done in the future, yes. But first and foremost, fix the current features before making new ones. No cognitive dissonance in that whatsoever.

I see what you are saying about removal of features like caltrops, but removal of any weapon/grenade should be the LAST resort, short of actually fixing the weapon. And by last, I mean all exhausted measures taken to attempt to balance/fix the weapon. Removal of anything is just taking the easy way out in most cases. This thread is about OP. I like the idea of it, but it needs improvement, not removal. There have been many great ideas so far in this thread, few of which represent what you are suggesting to remove it.

Bunch of cynics in here I tell you!

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

I see what you are saying about removal of features like caltrops, but removal of any weapon/grenade should be the LAST resort, short of actually fixing the weapon. And by last, I mean all exhausted measures taken to attempt to balance/fix the weapon. Removal of anything is just taking the easy way out in most cases.

That's just a silly and naive thing to think. That you should fix things because you can. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. You should also weigh many more factors besides wether or not it's possible to fix. Dev resources, creativeness, effectiveness, game balance, player desires. All things that should be weighed in.

The best way to fix stuff sometimes comes down to the removal or addition of certain features. To say fix rather than remove or add is incredibly closed minded, and counter intuitive in that aspect.

[KubeDawg]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Same can be said for removing a feature. FDA, that's what I'm talking about. If it can't be fixed/balanced so that it's something most people will enjoy, THEN and only then should removal be an option. But not even trying to fix something and saying oh let's just remove it, that's what I'm against.

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

If it can't be fixed/balanced so that it's something most people will enjoy, THEN and only then should removal be an option.

That's a silly and naive thing to think. You're only thinking about the feature itself, not about the balance of it, the devs resources, the affect it has on the game going unchanged untill it does get fixed.

I'm not saying OP is so horribly flawed it needs removed, that's what I'd like to see personally, but it's still not the only option. I've seen plenty of suggestions in this thread that combined, would make OP LESS agravating to me.

But it still stands that your logic, sir, is flawed.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg View Post
If it can't be fixed/balanced so that it's something most people will enjoy, THEN and only then should removal be an option.

What part of BALANCED did you not read? I'm not being naive. Stop saying that. Again, you do not know what you are talking about. With all the resources available at this current time, it makes things rather difficult to develop for this mod. Once we have a working autoupdater, things will change and most likely become better/easier for devs to deal with updates on an item by item basis rather than releasing a giant update that takes over a year to release. Once individual items can be updated on the fly, that will remove your frustrations of the effect OP has as it remains unchanged. Updates would take weeks rather than years. It's not like the devs don't already have fixes for other things like the Laser Grenade, so why is it so hard to grasp that it's BETTER to try to fix something before removing it entirely?

A lot of people in these modern times seem to buy something and if it breaks, they just trash it and go out and get a new one or something better. There are far fewer people that actually try to investigate what caused said item to break who try to fix it. In the real world, this ultimately costs that person more money to replace it. In terms of this mod, it's the easy way out to just say BURN THAT SHIT WITH FIRE and get rid of it than it is to fix it so you never have to deal with it again. Ignoring the issues without first attempting to fix/balance them is naive.

[FDA_Approved]

Rofl. Do you really think the auto updater is really going to create some kind of development boom for FF. There's like one fucking dev for this game right now. There's your naivety shining through.

Also just because you had a sentence with the word balance in it doesn't mean you're really thinking about all the implications of it.

so why is it so hard to grasp that it's BETTER to try to fix something before removing it entirely?

Because it's not better.

Also on the subject of laser nades. Just because the fix will be balanced doesn't mean it's the right decision. I'm sure plenty of people will still dislike it and wish for nail grens back. But that's something else, I'm personally fine with the laser fix. But, you can have the most balanced game in the world, but that doesn't mean it can't be a piece of shit no one wants to play. Balance=/= OK MAY AS WELL PUT IT IN!

Lets really break down OP from both sides of play comp and pub.

I don't think a single person in comp play likes OP or think it belongs in the game. From a competitive stand point it makes no sense to be in this game, it's something that's very begrudgingly been forced upon us. If no one likes it, then it's an immensely horrible decision to keep in. But you gotta balance the game for both sides of play so lets move on to pubbing shall we.

Now, first of all, OP is really only affective against 2 out of the 9 classes, honestly it is. What's it do? It brings you to a complete stop. That's most detrimental to scouts and medics, as their speed and ability to keep on keepin on is what they're all about. What's OP going to do to a solly? Push him 2 hammer units to the left? That's not very usefull to the heavy. And honestly if the heavy is in sight he's going to be DM'd from out of OP range anyways. So even if some how this slower O class ends up next to a heavy while trying to spam a sentry or demo or something, OP is not going to have a big affect on that. I recognize that scouts and meds do get played regularly in pubs. But the pub offensive is almost always much much more diverse than that. In pub offense there's a usually a solly or two, demo, god forbid but sometimes HW. Scout and medic are an insanely smaller preportion of the offense than they are in pickups.

So why would any pubber want OP? I would much rather have a mirv, or something similar, something that has a more even affect on all classes.

And I know HW isn't an O class, but when people do play him offensively...wtf is OP doin for that guy?

So effectively, OP is a useless, aggravating piece of shit. Across the board.

[Fruitcake]

I hate OP so much. Not because it wasn't in tfc, but because it is rage incarnate. Every time I use it I feel like a dirty scumbag. Every time it is used on me I want to murder developers but then I remember what awesome people they are and I feel bad . As scout I get cockblocked by OP so much; I've literally conced past heavys and been pulled back to them....

Also a pet peeve I insta-rage when I go for frag jump into backstab and get poofed straight up and insta gibbed by point blank hwg.

[Trailer]

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved

I don't think a single person in comp play likes OP or think it belongs in the game.

This guy likes it!

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by Trailer

This guy likes it!

NO YOU DON'T STOP LYING!!!!

Okokokokokok, I know you really like USING it. But that's just because you like doing anything that makes people rage.

It still stands that you don't like when it happens to you. :P

Tell me I'm wrong bby, tell me I'm wrong.