Sad post for FF fans/ Graphics frustration

[Johnny Mullet]

This is the dumbest argument for this mod. Seriously, if you cannot distinguish the models or even colors of other players, then you need a fucking new computer! I can see a player from the other side of the map and know what color and or class they are and I am on Fucking Dialup.

Focus on a more serious debate for this mod like.................

Pyro's flames should burn Spy gas.
Pyro has a gasmask = immune to gas.
etc

Get a grip ppl.

[pF]

So now some people are against high quality textures, while others say that FF's gfx are shit. The devs must have done something right then.

Honestly, i don't see where the problem is. I do not have problems telling a demo from a pyro, a HW from a soldier. Nor do i need to know recognize the scout from 5 miles off. I would like a redesign of the models for style reasons (and if somebody could take care of the anims, i'd do it), but i don't feel that supposedly not being able to recognize the various classes is something that breaks the game. I agree with Mr. Mullet, there are more important issues to talk about.

[Circuitous]

-pF- I might take you up on that offer.

[Green Mushy]

Some comparative photos.

[Green Mushy]

Belive it or not, there is a soldier up there! Hes to the left of the laser, at the lip of the ramp. Look at the joke of a difference. Both soldiers in relatively the same spot.




Guess That Class.

[Circuitous]

Probably fairly visible at normal resolution. I magnified the image and couldn't see anything, so he's either blending perfectly with the eight or so pixels making the wall or he's not actually there.

[Skillet]

I was the soldier standing their, so I can confirm I was at the top right of the ramp on sd2.

Skillet

[Circuitous]

Right, because you've proven yourself a reliable, trustworthy, and sensible individual in the past.

Aside from the pseudo-visible soldier you initially posted I didn't have any trouble discerning what was there. Granted, in the first Scout shot I couldn't immediately tell it was a Scout, but there are a few things that screenshot lacks - higher resolution, movement speed, etc. You're greatly exaggerating the problem with these screenshots.

If anything they point more to map clutter than an issue with the player models.

[GeoKill----->]

It looks like your fov is 120 in FF but 90 in TFC

[Circuitous]

Oh good, someone else noticed.

[Paft]

^ I was going to say the same thing. We can't see anything in the FF shots cause it looks warped and much further away due higher FOV? Not cause the models are not very distinguishable.

TFC's new models aren't very distinguishable so this is a poor argument.

[v3rtigo]

Regardless of the models, have you noticed textures? In TFC, everything is much more... monotonous, so anything that has a different shape or color stands out much more, while in FF, classes are much more camouflaged. The abundance of details in the textures make it harder to see a class of equal or better detail.

Also, I think this is a pretty important part of the game as many, new and old, players will have to 'feel' what the game is about and looks play a huge part in that. Making everything bright, shiny and flashy not only fits the game more (imo), but it also gives a different impression of the game, that will either interest players or not. TFC and TF2's flashy, colorful looks certainly play a part in the ability to fully enjoy/experience a game.

Also, I think these models were the best:

http://www.hlevolve.com/upload/images/spy.jpg
http://www.hlevolve.com/upload/images/soldier.jpg
http://www.hlevolve.com/upload/images/scout.jpg

but I guess that's personal

[Paft]

I think it has something to do with your computers like Mullet and whoever else said. Cause look how clean the game looks in these images from the media section.

http://www.fortress-forever.com/media/ff_shutdown2_9

[Hoopajoo]

If you use anisotropic filtering you wont have that blur in the distance. Bilinear/trilinear looks like shit. 2x af wont hurt performance much either.

As for models... light does not seem to reflect off of the player models as well as map geometry. It's part of the source engine me thinks. The player models appear darker than they did in tfc, for sure, but I don't have my gamma all the way up and I haven't particularly been bothered by their darkness. I wouldn't mind brighter models though for 2.1.

I use a 21" monitor at 1680x1050 and use fov 110. 8x csaa, 8x AF. 8800 gts 320.

[v3rtigo]

Originally Posted by Paft

I think it has something to do with your computers like Mullet and whoever else said. Cause look clean these images are in the media section.

http://www.fortress-forever.com/media/ff_shutdown2_9

That looks like an older version, shutdown now looks like this
http://www.fortress-forever.com/media/ff_shutdown20021

Though I have to say, that lighting would be a great step forward... Speaking of which, weren't we complaining about how maps were too dark/depressing? Maybe just changing the lighting would help.

edit: just noticed that the textures are also different :P
either way, I think it looks way better

[Paft]

Yep, didn't spend long enough looking for the right image. Still looks clean and nice.

[GeoKill----->]

Its fine on my end

[Circuitous]

Old shutdown was way better.

[Hoopajoo]

Yea I rly think something should be done about the ele. It should have a ladder on the right side of that room so it's not a death trap.

[caesium]

rofl this is why i'm always reluctant to even attempt a serious discussion on these "forums"... visibility IS a big issue in FF for me and some others - if it's not an issue for you then great, but there's no need for strongly opinionated and dismissive posts pls lol. how much of an issue it is depends on your style of play, and (very roughly) it becomes much more of an issue the better you are at the game: as on offy you learn to move faster and faster and have less or no pauses to assess your surroundings within a move, and as on def you learn to deal with that speed. as you get better the skill is no longer in the raw technique of the class skills (they are merely a prerequisite), but instead in how you apply those raw skills to the exact situation around you at that specific moment. hence the ability to extremely quickly (instantly, ideally) recognise and simultaneously monitor up to say 4 nme, a few team-mates, grens, pipes, sg, etc on your screen at any one time as you fly into a room at 100mph+ becomes absolutely essential, and any failure or delay to do so due to the gfx is simply an annoyance that often severly interferes with the gameplay. it's not solved by having a kick-ass pc (a crap pc would be much worse tho ofc). as i said before, it's infinitely better than it used to be and can be improved to be acceptable (to me) by setting your FF up cunningly, but it's still not as good as i'd like it to be ideally.

map lighting: yeah imo some of the maps should be considerably brighter and less dingy/depressing, but all my efforts regarding this in the past got slated by those experienced mappers working on them (comments along the lines of "i don't take you srsly cos you think aardvark lighting looks nice *cough* fullbright rofl"). while i personally don't like dingy/depressing, the thing is that ppl like different things, and so letting each mapper do whatever he personally thinks looks/plays nice should create a load of variation so that there's hopefully something for everyone in the game. however, if there's a general concencus that a particular map is not right then perhaps we should try changing the lighting and see which version ppl prefer. v simple to do.