O_o

[FrenchToast]

And you seem to not be understanding what I'm saying, thus I say good day to you sir and get some much needed sleep.

[Bridget]

No, I understand what you are saying. You think the administrative team isn't being held under the same standard as us, when no one knows what has been said behind the scenes or what standard or expectation they must adhere to. Second, you seem to believe it needs to be 'written in text' to be so, on some forum post that probably hasn't been updated in a while, seems like nitpicking.

Everyone got a second chance, and everyone also got away from punishment, not only the forum admins. Look, the past is the past, and we can't all hop in a time machine and go back and change things. The forum erase has been done, let's just move on and stop acting like children. Worry about the future. WOAH, RADICAL IDEA, MAN. WHAT AM I SAYING? I don't know.

[Etzell]

Originally Posted by Bridget

No, I understand what you are saying. You think the administrative team isn't being held under the same standard as us, when no one knows what has been said behind the scenes or what standard or expectation they must adhere to. Second, you seem to believe it needs to be 'written in text' to be so, on some forum post that probably hasn't been updated in a while, seems like nitpicking.

And THAT's the problem with deleting the old posts. The "writing in text" that FT is talking about came up about a month and 1/2 ago, because FT called Scuzzy on some BS and Scuzzy saw it fit to tell the community that the admins aren't held to the same standard. It's not nitpicking. It's righting a recent wrong.

Of course, you'd never know that, what with the brilliant plan to delete the evidence.

[uBeR]

That one would even need Scuzzy to inform you that this is the case seems pretty surprising, given that it stares you right in the face pretty much on a daily basis. There is no question as to what the standards are, and we don't need Scuzzy to clarify it.

[Bridget]

ITT: Crybabies who are never satisfied and need to get over themselves.

[Etzell]

Appreciate the flames, Bridget.

[Bridget]

It's the truth. I don't think anything will satisfy you people, you always find something to complain about. If you're not complaining, then there's no reason for you to be on these forums. Why do you think the forum was erased in the first place? Because, everyone cries and blames everyone else for their problems. No one takes any responsibility, no one deals in any intellectual honesty. Why can't you just get over yourselves, mature up, and move on? Nah, that's not fun. You guys love the drama. Just admit it.

[uBeR]

I don't think I could force that much irony if I wanted to.

[Etzell]

Originally Posted by Bridget

It's the truth. I don't think anything will satisfy you people, you always find something to complain about. If you're not complaining, then there's no reason for you to be on these forums. Why do you think the forum was erased in the first place? Because, everyone cries and blames everyone else for their problems. No one takes any responsibility, no one deals in any intellectual honesty. Why can't you just get over yourselves, mature up, and move on? Nah, that's not fun. You guys love the drama. Just admit it.

And none of this: "You guys love the drama, I don't" talk rings hollow to you, does it?

[Mooga]

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

Then you should be happy. Everyone gets a fresh start and a chance to begin again. A level playing field. Conversely it will be very easy to point out to those who are doubtful who actually begins instigating, accusing, and being a general problem.

Scuzzy

But this means I can actually be smart. I liked being a half-ass!

[Skanky Butterpuss]

guys i think someone hacked bridgets account.

[Hawk Eye]

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

guys i think someone hacked bridgets account.

rofl that thought actually crossed my mind too.

[GenghisTron]

I'm kinda disappointed, but I know if I do see a double standard/abuse of power again in the future, it will lead to a shitstorm. I just have a hard time taking this whole 'starting fresh' thing seriously because in the 'Forum 2010 Resolution' thread, the two moderators in question vowed to change their attitudes, but were saying so in a facetious and almost joking manner. This is why I figured (I can't speak for uBer and FT, but I'll assume within reason this is why for them, also) the mods were covering their asses.

However, like I said, I'm willing to start anew, but the second this contract is broken is also the second I have completely lost faith in these forums, and as said earlier, will lead to a shitstorm.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

. . . but the second this contract is broken is also the second I have completely lost faith in these forums, and as said earlier, will lead to a shitstorm.

This is what I am suggesting. Regardless of the 'tone of voice' used by the moderators, the individuals who partake in this forum can at-least show the other administrative members that they actually care for bettering the forums instead of proving, as always, that they're just as much preoccupied in the bitching and bickering and name calling as much as the moderators. If the admins were being condescending and sarcastic, then don't take the bait, so when the 'shit hits the fan', it becomes overwhelmingly obvious they are the ones being problematic.

As I said, it's difficult to tell who is the aggressor and who is the victim in heated debate, so allow those who are 'bad' to dig their own 'grave', figuratively speaking. Of course, because the same opportunity to start anew has been past to me, I have to be fair and allow it be passed to the forum admins too. Past grudges aside, if they can prove they are no longer a problem (as they have so far), then great. No one seems to want to give the admins a second chance, no one wants to be fair, which leads me to be suspicious that a great deal of the forum-goers don't actually give 'two shits' about a friendly and fair and comfortable forum environment. It's as if they liked the way things were here, which is ironic considering how much they bitched about it.

[[AE] 82694]

No GenghisTron mine was not or even supposed to be. I was sincere . Just like in the pm I sent you "I apologize when I'm wrong" some forum members believe they are never wrong and if they are wouldn't admit it any way. As you can see from some posts in this thread already.

For the record I wasn't told to apologize either.

[stray kitten]

Originally Posted by uBeR

FrenchToast, some people from bygone ages were brought up, taught, or otherwise indoctrinated to leave authority unquestioned. "Obedience and discipline" were the desideratum of society. (As an aside, you might call this "the educational system" in modern nomenclature.) You don't "need to worry about" who "the rules apply to." (For obvious reasons, of course.) Even raising these kinds of questions might been seen as "complicating" things; you're supposed be controlled as efficiently as possible, not "complicating" things and "causing drama." Yes, that's the type of culture some people have grown up and still immerse themselves in. I also find it to be a rather perverse culture, a "poor philosophy" generally, and the reason we're even having this discussion, to be sure.

You are comparing society of say ... 1910 with this game forum?

[GenghisTron]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

You are comparing society of say ... 1910 with this game forum?

Oh right, since most people today are free and independent thinkers, diametrically opposed to 1910. Clearly.

[uBeR]

If we wanted to take Bridget's argument seriously, which is that the admins here are sincerely interested in building a good community and actually wanting to "bettering the forums," then we can evaluate it by what the admins have actually done. I say this because it would actually be a very simple task to do what Bridget suggests they are doing, namely to follow some elementary moral principles like not being hypocrites. It would have been a simple task. It doesn't require whitewashing their record; that in fact accomplishes the opposite of what Bridget really thinks they're doing. It's for reasons I've already explained. It's clear Bridget's argument is false--the admins are doing the opposite of "bettering the forums," as their actions clearly evince. If it were true, we'd see some adherence to elementary moral principles, which we don't.

Yes, stray kitten, the trend is historic. One might be led to believe that such an outdated culture could have only existed, say, 100 years ago. Society has certainly improved over the past 100 years, but it doesn't mean the backwards philosophies of the 1910s (it actually goes way further back) don't exist in the present, as we've witnessed. I didn't mean to imply such notions--like you're not supposed to question "who the rules apply to"--were eradicated and the only way to think about them is abstractly. They exist, with different nomenclatures, and they still influence people, which means it can still impact even the way gaming forums are run, as sad as that may be.

[stray kitten]

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

Oh right, since most people today are free and independent thinkers, diametrically opposed to 1910. Clearly.

I am not opposed to 1910. Perhaps in many ways there were more free and independent thought back then. After all many great classical philosophies predate the last half century. Definitely more freedom of information now, but you had more freedom to publish something or express an idea in the 70s than you do today. Maybe I should have said 1974?

[Scuzzy]

I don't imagine that much of people's nature will change, frankly. Those who instigate problems and bicker and whine on both sides of the fence will continue to do so. Matters of the rules and how they are instituted have a brand new area that allows the public unfettered access to the entire development team. Anytime there is a question about how the rules are being enforced, or lack of enforcement, it can be brought up there, making this a much more transparent environment to bring up any concerns you may have. It creates an environment where the decisions of the administration can be discussed and the abuse of power impossible. You may not like the decisions being made, but this is what the development team has decided is best for Fortress Forever. And that's what this forum is about.

So, use your new clean slate as you always have. If you've fostered good debate, please do so. If you've made false accusations and cried wolf, feel free within the rules. If you've worked to help this mod become better we welcome that continued help. Be yourself. Show your true colors. You have nothing to hide here.

Scuzzy