Half-Life 2.net Review

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Most of TFC's textures are from Half-Life. Go look.

TFC uses many custom textures, such as the team colored walls and floors and so on, and several maps either have almost no HL1 textures or don't look like HL1. When I think of TFC I'm not reminded of HL1 at all.

I was talking in public play about de_nuke try to use common sense. The fact it was ported means nothing and I was well aware of that fact when I posted it. Once again use common sense.

It is played publically. Not as often as dust or dust2, but played nonetheless. If the map was completely and utterly abandoned I doubt it would have made it all the way from the early betas to CS:S.

Every post I have made has explained why lack of a unified art system could confuse players and it does. Once again common sense.

It's not common sense. I don't see how it would confuse players. I've never been confused in FPS games because of different looking maps.

TFC had those same announcements.

So?

Players need a reason to get the flag.

They have a reason: it's the objective of the map and you get points for it.

In the future don't quote lines out of another post it just takes up room, looks ugly, and shows you can't use your memory to save your life.

It's not about memory, it's about making it easier for me to reply, easier to read the reply and easier for the other person to reply back. Many people just quote a giant wall of text and don't specify what particular points they're replying to. It's sometimes very hard to figure out what they're talking about.

Also, I don't like the tone of reply. What makes you think you can tell me what to do?

But with a name like lollerskates I wouldn't expect any different. I don't mind open discussion but at least have strong point when trying.

Are you a rabid TF2 fanboy or is there some other reason why you're so agitated and hostile?

[NoPriz]

All of you STFU all ready jesus, every thread is the same ol thing here

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by NoPriz

All of you STFU all ready jesus, every thread is the same ol thing here

Then go somewhere else.

[SoBe Green]

Now you are just nitpicking and in my eyes trying to be an ass. I'll ignore you from here on out. This was a great conversation without you. Lock this please. This kid is just going to ruin the topic from here on out.

[Jiggles]

I don't think that review is that terrible, though it does give the impression that FF is "finished" in the way that a released commercial game is. That is, that FF has no room to "grow". He is right that TF2 is brilliant, though.

[Credge]

I'd say the review is pretty accurate. FF is essentially TFC with easier BHOP, some changes, and some new additions including revamped graphics.

Thing is, I much prefer FF over TFC simply because of the ragdoll physics and the plethora of changes to core classes like the soldier and HW. It makes it much more fun in a pub environment and the changes to classes like the spy and pyro will probably make league play much different and team oriented than the original was.

As for TF2, I haven't played it yet so I can't say how it is. However, it does seem very team oriented and I'll leave my opinion of it at that.

[Desyphur]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Now you are just nitpicking and in my eyes trying to be an ass. I'll ignore you from here on out. This was a great conversation without you. Lock this please. This kid is just going to ruin the topic from here on out.

SoBe Green, you're the one being an ass. You just had no way to respond after his last post because you knew he was right. Also, Going to respond to an earlier post of yours because it caught my eye.

[quote=SoBe Green]Not only do I think that, it is true. Over the years CS was not only something new in terms of multiplayer fps it looked new too. Yes TFC had a larger player base than CS did in the early CS days.[quote]

Ok, what CS did for Multiplayer FPS...a little bit more "realism" but over all, just slowed down the genre for the most part. THANKS CS.

But compared to CS TFC is/was very ugly and that can not be contested.

I love how certain you seem. TFC was not "ugly" compared to CS, they were at the same point in graphics. As a matter of fact, I could make TFC look better than CS with a few model changes.

Over the years the Half-Life engine received updates and CS was updated to take advantage of these updates. Anyone who remembers when de_piranesi was released will remember how awesome it was to see a realistic tree on the HL engine.

No, because I didn't care. A realistic tree...oh boy. If I wanted to see a tree, I'd go outside and look at some. Really, a tree didn't matter that much...

TFC was never given any opportunities or visual upgrades except for the newer player models which most hardcore TF players will swear were the worst thing to ever happen to the game. Its that kind of thinking that can hurt FF.

TFC was, as I listed above, given visual upgrades aswell. I don't understand how "That kind of thinking" would hurt FF though.

Who here hasn't honestly saw a new guy play TFC and say "This game is ugly as hell." I see it now in CS 1.6. Yes people still play both games and visualizations aren't everything but they damn sure do hook people from the start and a game like this thats based on an idea so old needs that more than anything.

I haven't honestly seen someone say that TFC was ugly. Ever. As a matter of fact, everyone I've ever played with fell in love with TFC right away.

I'm off to play some games, Maybe TF2, maybe FF, maybe TFC.

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by Desyphur

I haven't honestly seen someone say that TFC was ugly. Ever.

I think the old TFC models are ugly bastard Lego men.

The gameplay is beautiful, though, and the new models are rather shiny indeed.

So here is someone who says a part of TFC is ugly.




(Does mervaka count as a "part of TFC"? 'cause then I might have to amend my previous statements...)

[SoBe Green]

If you can't think out of the box don't talk like you are not sitting in it. You are both so set on one game that you can't see shit from mud.

We aren't talking custom content here we are talking how the game shipped. If TFC was so far from Half-Life why is the rocket launcher, IC, shotgun, and crowbar from HL in TFC? Why is half of the 2fort, well, flagrun, dustbowl, crossover2, and rock2 textures all HL textures? This isn't something I made up to sound cool on the internet folks get over it. Any mapper or person with half a brain can tell you these things right away. Am I going to have to get screen shots for you two or do we have to draw "pwetty shapes fo you speshul kids"?

Like I said before I'm not talking down to FF in any way at all. I was waiting on this game the second I first heard of it. I didn't quit talking because he "beat me" I could care less about that. I quit because you two have completely ruined this topic with your worthless attempts at conversation or debate.

Quit acting like I'm attacking TFC or FF, I'm not. If you weren't so stupid you'd see that.

[summit]

SoBe Green - the only thing I disagree with is

"I could care less about that" - it's couldn't! =P

Anyway I think this argument is once again falling back to peoples personal preferences, not that it was ever supposed to be heading there in the first place. I can see how someone could get the impression that TFC reused a lot of HL content, so bringing up anything else does nothing for the discussion.

I may be wrong but it seems the message revolves around FF lacking it's own look (note: I said look, not feel). I guess if that's the worst thing this mod has going for it, it's doing pretty good. My take on it is there were far too many people that'd be potentially upset by any significant changes, hence keeping it "true" to what TFC started.

That's what I got from it, anyway. I'd bring up what TF2 did (not right/wrong, just what they did differently) but I can see how that'd spiral into a shit-fight pretty quickly, so I won't. However, I don't think anyone was slagging off anything here - I just figured the point of this original point was to discuss one (of few seems to be the consensus) solid points the reviewer brought up.

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

If you can't think out of the box don't talk like you are not sitting in it. You are both so set on one game that you can't see shit from mud.

We aren't talking custom content here we are talking how the game shipped. If TFC was so far from Half-Life why is the rocket launcher, IC, shotgun, and crowbar from HL in TFC? Why is half of the 2fort, well, flagrun, dustbowl, crossover2, and rock2 textures all HL textures? This isn't something I made up to sound cool on the internet folks get over it. Any mapper or person with half a brain can tell you these things right away. Am I going to have to get screen shots for you two or do we have to draw "pwetty shapes fo you speshul kids"?

Like I said before I'm not talking down to FF in any way at all. I was waiting on this game the second I first heard of it. I didn't quit talking because he "beat me" I could care less about that. I quit because you two have completely ruined this topic with your worthless attempts at conversation or debate.

Quit acting like I'm attacking TFC or FF, I'm not. If you weren't so stupid you'd see that.

Apart from the personal banters back and forth, yes, i agree. It's good to raise some points on how people perceive FF, including, i might add, articles which are biased.

1. You get to see the types of biases that are out there.
2. Some are legitimate biases, such as the very polished and well light/shaded graphics of TF2
3. some are not so legitimate, like poo pooing on FF because of the "vets"(which is like saying, i'm gonna dis tight fit shirts because Jim Jones wears them)
4. some are down right wrong, like demoting FF because it uses "spamnades" or promoting TF2 because of its "teamplay and original TF gameplay of tatical invasion"

Discussions don't have to turn into "you suck; no you suck" tennis match. Let's keep suggesting ideas on how to improve the quality of FF so that any TF type games, past or future, will use FF as their standard. And perhaps influence the FPS industry like the original TF mod did.

[lollerskates]

SoBe Green is just here to troll.

[SoBe Green]

I was one of the first few to come to the FF boards. Why would I troll? Look at this: http://www.fortress-forever.com/forum/member.php?u=534

See that? I've been here since January 2005 why would I sit around for two years and decide to troll?

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

(Does mervaka count as a "part of TFC"? 'cause then I might have to amend my previous statements...)

He would have but they fixed that with a patch.

[AfterShock]

Apart from the jokes (I don't find the sexual humour stuff funny personally, sorry!) I'd say it's a pretty balanced review (for the topics it covers). The major disappointment for me would be the fact that the reviewer doesn't mention anything to do with gameplay depth.

FF has taken a completely different route to TF2 (tf2 is much simpler, much easier to master, nothing 'deep' to keep you playing for long) and FF's entire movement system is the major reason why FF is so fun (once you take the short time to learn it). Playing FF, players can have fun simply moving around. Concing, skimming, weapons jumping, sliding, trimping, sharking. If you don't like moving around in this way, and want simply 'you die or I die' shooter, then yeah you'll prefer TF2. If you want to pick up a game, play for half an hour and get top score on a server, then TF2 is for you. If you want a highly polished game, visually impressive, emersive characterisation, then yes, TF2 is for you.

In fact given that TF2 is produced by possibly the most famous games development studio in the world, over the course of 10 years, spraying advertisments on the walls of de_dust2, then it's little surprise that TF2 will be played by the majority.

FF never actually set out to compete with TF2, the FF project was announced after the TFC community waited 7 years for the vaporware that was TF2. After valve gave us patches introducing new bugs and unwanted features, instead of fixing old bugs and balancing classes, and refused to update us on their stance on TFC / TF2, we decided to spend 3 years making this mod (off our own back, in our spare time, for free!). TF2 was actually announced as a 'real game' long into FF's development cycle, and it is by lucky coincidence that TF2 and FF are so far apart in terms of gameplay and target market. FF is not an off-the-shelf game made by a professional games company. We are all volunteers and as such, have produced, in my eyes, the most polished, deep and customised source mod in the world.

Anyway, back to FF's actual gameplay!

FF's core gameplay mechanisms ensure that its playerbase is kept enthralled and its gameplay never bores, only continues to interest you for months (and hopefully years) to come. There is little in TF2's arsenal that I would call 'deep', that you cannot master on the first day or week of playing. This depth, longevity, long learning curve is what sets FF apart and it is really a shame to have no mention of this altogether, when it is that which is the very foundation of what FF is all about.

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by AfterShock

...spraying advertisments on the walls of de_dust2, ...

I totally forgot about the in-game ads on CS.

sidenote: i quit CS 1.6 cuz valve wouldn't take the ads out, even though the servers are run by admins and not valve =/. way to leech off of your supporters valve.

[Beavis]

Originally Posted by IvaQuaL

"The former is firmly rooted in the past, whilst the latter looks to the future."
This sentence made me jump a little. It just shows right from the bat that the review is biased and relies on prejudice. TF2 just has to be better since it's newer, right ? What ?

The whole Halflife2.net site is full of Valve suck ups.

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Fact
FF doesn't have a theme. There aren't many maps that even somewhat resemble each other so the newer players at each turn are just going to feel more and more lost. The lack of visual signs or directions on each map adds to this. This isn't bashing FF its way too early to say all is lost.

So true!

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

I was one of the first few to come to the FF boards.

/care

[SoBe Green]

There we go now run along and cause problems somewhere else.

[lollerskates]

Oh, the irony.

[Desyphur]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

If you can't think out of the box don't talk like you are not sitting in it. You are both so set on one game that you can't see shit from mud.

I'm not set one one game. I play TFC, FF AND TF2. I enjoy all of them. Shut up unless you know what you're talking about.

Quit acting like I'm attacking TFC or FF, I'm not. If you weren't so stupid you'd see that.

You're defending the review, and the review is, on a large basis, "attacking" FF. Also, talking about TFC, at talking it DOWN because it "doesn't have a theme" is "attacking it". If you weren't so stupid, you'd realize that.