01-12-2010, 03:29 AM | #41 |
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Er, yes, what I meant to say (evidenced by the subsequent sentences) is what you said: "no one believes that what you see or hear is not believed to be true by you." (It would have been easier if I wasn't trying to write a double negative.) I've corrected it. Thanks.
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01-12-2010, 11:40 AM | #42 |
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Which isn't his point, he's asking if you'll accept that he's allowed to feel it's true, which most of you don't. You deride him, say he's delusional, say it's just a dream, say it's a misfire in the brain, discount his experience. You'll never accept that he has experienced something that is true and honest that you will not. I am also fairly certain that none of you hear understood that fire would burn you, or believed it to be true, until you felt the heat when you were a child. Just as you were not sure if a certain dish would taste good the first time without seeing it, smelling it, tasting it.
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01-12-2010, 02:48 PM | #43 |
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Actually, everyone so far has said "he's allowed to feel it's true." You would do well to actually bother to read what's been posted. Furthermore, what I and others have said, which you would know if you bothered to read, was that just because one feels something is absolutely true does not make it true. That's based on the simple fact that empiricism is not fool-proof. I can absolutely believe there's a unicorn sitting in my room reading Frege out loud. That doesn't make it true though, does it? I can of course say that such an experience is ineffable, must be experienced to be realized, etc., but that means absolutely nothing.
Does anyone here believe the sun will rise tomorrow? How can you know if you've not experienced the future? If you actually doubt that you cannot know what you have not experienced, you ought to be skeptical as to whether the sun will rise tomorrow morning. You, of course, would be opposed to long philosophical tenet of logic called inductive reasoning.
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01-12-2010, 03:02 PM | #44 | |
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Quote:
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01-12-2010, 04:13 PM | #45 |
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No, sorry, I don't hear whispers from the dead.
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01-12-2010, 04:16 PM | #46 | |
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01-12-2010, 04:30 PM | #47 |
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No, faith means a lack of evidence. We have evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow, though we have yet to experience it. Inductive reasoning is "moving from a set of specific facts to a general conclusion." That is, there are facts that support but do not deductively entail the conclusion. It is in this way the inductive reasoning results in probable (but not certain) conclusions. From the specific to the general. I can say with a high degree of probability the sun will rise tomorrow morning, just as it has everyday in the past. That's inductive reasoning. Saying God exists because I hear whispers means nothing. There's no evidence to support either case. It's not inductive reasoning.
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01-12-2010, 05:03 PM | #48 | |
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01-12-2010, 10:10 PM | #49 |
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I don't know that Jesus was the son of God based on any personal experience, neither do I know it based on any other evidence. I do not know it. If I do not know it, I especially would not expect anyone else to accept it as as truth, so I don't. In fact, I expect them to be very skeptical of any such claim, as they should be.
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01-12-2010, 10:22 PM | #50 | |
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01-12-2010, 11:06 PM | #51 | |
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01-12-2010, 11:35 PM | #52 | |
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01-12-2010, 11:45 PM | #53 |
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One cannot know something unless it's true. Otherwise it's not knowledge. Every epistemologist in the world believes this. Anyone who claims to know Jesus is the son of God, or that God exists for that matter, must prove that such a claim is true, in the epistemic sense. The same holds for anyone who claims they know they're hearing whispers from dead people. There's a difference between belief and knowledge.
Do I know Jesus is the son of God? I don't know it. I don't even believe it. I became an atheist in 2009.
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01-13-2010, 12:50 AM | #54 | |
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01-13-2010, 01:52 AM | #55 |
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Nothing like harassing someone because of their faith, eh?
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01-13-2010, 02:41 AM | #56 |
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We shouldn't put anything beneath the troll, nor should we feed it too much.
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01-13-2010, 02:54 AM | #57 |
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I don't believe you can harass an atheist for faith. Aside from that I didn't harass him, I agree with his supposition that when there's a massive amount of evidence to a fact, no matter what someone may say or lie about, that indeed the truth is usually still that fact. He's right, I admit that in this case. You should be happy that we agree.
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01-13-2010, 03:02 AM | #58 |
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Sure you can. Atheism is as much faithbased as any other ideology, just not in the traditional sense.
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01-13-2010, 03:16 AM | #59 | |
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I suppose that is correct if you talk about strong atheism.
What should we call a lack of belief in God that requires no faith? I really don't want to fit into the agnostic category, anything but that. Maybe I'll refer to myself as non-theist. Quote:
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01-13-2010, 03:26 AM | #60 |
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Exactly. Most people don't realize this.
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