Something that can more people play Fortress Forever

[FDA_Approved]

The thing is every one wants to play stuff like O heavy and solly and junk like that. It just drags the ctf game mode down, makes it slower and boring. But when ever an avd map comes up which is catered towards that a lot of people leave.

Honestly in the area of class makeup, 5pc and avd are much friendlier and far superior. In a warpath type map every class is viable for both teams at all times. It's only a little more strict in avd, but much much more so in ctf.

I just don't get why pubbers won't play more dm game modes when it seems like all they want to do is dm.

Ctf requires more than a good player count evenly split up into O and D to be optimal. It's got a lot to do with class balance and how people play.

[KubeDawg]

I think we need to see more Warpath style maps honestly. I agree that it seems to work for all classes. As far as people playing roles incorrectly, the main reason AVD maps can work better than CTF is if the defensive team is limited or restricted access from certain classes such as scout or if offense is restricted from using, say HW guy. That can't be done in a regular CTF map because what if it is a regular game where both sides have O and D? Can't just restrict classes that way. So in that respect, I think AVD is better.

Still, that doesn't explain the mass amounts of CTF maps over AVD, the ratio is probably 10:1. Maybe they're easier to make than AVD? I suspect there is more than one cause.

Getting pub players to play certain classes might seem difficult at first, but all it takes is for someone to speak their mind about it and once that person know what to do (or what not to do), then it ceases to be an issue in most cases. You will see those few stubborn players who don't give a shit what you think, but those players will probably also not follow the objective on AVD maps as well, although it is easier to do after 1 or 2 CPs are capped. Once they are aware of the general direction, newer people tend to follow suit.

[homie in reboks']

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

You will see those few stubborn players who don't give a shit what you think, but those players will probably also not follow the objective on AVD maps as well

Mindless DM, which is the bane of pubbing CTF maps, is not as detrimental to the overall integrity of the AvD mode.

It's so much easier to just run around and shoot at shit, which is basically 'pushing' (The key to winning AvD) than it is to coordinate any cohesive offense or defense in CTF.

People don't want to play AvD, though. They keep voting ff_destroy and ff_schtop 7 out of 10 times because it's comfortable. It's what they know. They can turn their brain off, spam their grenade binds, and still feel like they made a positive impact to the game.

[CaptainAhab]

From my experience, AvD maps were easier for me to figure out when I started playing than a number of the more complex CTF maps like Chimkeyz, Propinquity, Siege, and Baked.

I think that just about everyone knows the layout of maps like Avanti and Ksour, and those two do get played a fair amount, but for some reason or another people tend to prefer CTF -- maybe because there are far more maps to choose from for that mode, which means more variety.

[Oreoman]

i'm not saying ctf maps cant handle that

but whenever i play in a pub it ALWAYS ends up with like 5-7 d vs. 5-7 o

occasionally u get some1 playing d or o on other team but its just not something that happens and avd kind of forces it i play ctf all the time i know u can just run o and d but how many times when its got plenty of people?(i really dont know thats a genuine question) and for a newer player goin around and nades everywhere granted i havent thought it to be too spammy but they might think that.... IDK

[homie in reboks']

There are a lot of CTF maps, but people still only play a handful. More maps won't help because the community is super specific with which maps they favor.

Most times people shy away from Defense-Centric maps because going fast on offense and shit is usually more fun. It also sucks to spend 15 minutes playing and get one cap because 3 HW's and 2 engineers just sat on the flag. So, that knocks out a good portion of the CTF maps.

Another thing is the super open maps like Xpress are usually pub favorites. Pubs tend to like xpress because it's so open and easy to conc and jump around; it's just fun. Also, you can get airshots and shit on D, and it's fun to watch the flag fall into the abyss.
But these open maps are also perfect for sniping, which just adds frustration to the game and starts the sniper revenge cycle (You snipe me -> I try to ruin your fun sniping -> I snipe you harder...)

So, the community tends to favor these middle of the road maps (destroy, schtop, phantom, propinquity...): Not too much space, but open enough to conc around safely, and familiar enough that they won't spend all their time not knowing where they are/what to do.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by Oreoman

i'm not saying ctf maps cant handle that

but whenever i play in a pub it ALWAYS ends up with like 5-7 d vs. 5-7 o

occasionally u get some1 playing d or o on other team but its just not something that happens and avd kind of forces it i play ctf all the time i know u can just run o and d but how many times when its got plenty of people?(i really dont know thats a genuine question) and for a newer player goin around and nades everywhere granted i havent thought it to be too spammy but they might think that.... IDK

So next time you are in that situation, maybe take it upon yourself to go Red O and start capping, then tell Red they better get some defense.

[Fruitcake]

I wish we had more AvD maps but it takes soooo much more work to make an AvD map then a ctf. CTF maps are always mirrored, and the entities are usually just spawns+flag/cap. AvD on the other hand you can't copy paste half the map and you have to create spawns, caps, gates, scoring system, det-pack walls/doors etc.

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by homie in reboks'

People don't want to play AvD, though. They keep voting ff_openfire and ff_openfire 7 out of 10 times because it's comfortable.

u rite

[Oreoman]

meh same maps boring gimme canalzon/run>schtop/destroy anyday :P

[ddm999]

I'd make Warpath style maps, that is, if they weren't twice the size of a CTF map.

The thing is, I'm bad at making maps with good gameplay. I can make 1 CTF map a day. It would take me 3 days to make a SCP map. I'd prefer to spend less time doing something that I don't know will work.

Also, you need to stick 8 spawn areas in a SCP map. It's not like TF2, where you can just change the respawn timers, because there ain't no respawn timers.

AvD maps, are even harder.

They may be slightly smaller than an SCP map, but you need to make it so that it's balanced. You can't have the offence winning every time, but you can't have the defence winning every time.

Also, you guys saying it ends up 5 playing O and 7 playing D?

Yeah, that never happens. You can get 2 playing O on Red, and they only do it because they're new to the game and don't actually know what's happening. Then 1 guy who knows what he's doing joins them.

Then there's 1 on D on Blue, who responds to them attacking, and no-one else joins him because they joined the Blue team to play O, and therefore don't want to play D.

Oh, and playing normal CTF leads to more prickish Snipers.

People play ksour and avanti (and palermo and the other one of which the name defeats me which has also got the same name as an Italian soccer team - hey, remembered to write soccer on here even though it's called football, god damn it) because:

a) They're not CTF.
b) They play well.
c) They're based off of TFC maps.
d) They're default maps with lots of polish.

Also, they're the only IvD maps that actually fucking exist.

Hell, people play Fusion every now and again, and that ain't even IvD, it's IvDZ. (I love Fusion. Don't judge me. Well, I love it apart from the lua. The terrible way of capturing the points. Don't see why it's not just the same way capturing TF2s points.)

PS: cee zee bay bee.

[Credge]

Sadly, there are a bunch of factors that make FF not a choice for most people.

To start, the mod is old for a game that is old. Half-Life 2 is almost 10 years old. Think about that.

There are tons of games out there as well. Big releases coming out almost all the time, tons of indie developers with tons of indie games, new consoles on the horizon.

Also, Fortress style play has always been a niche. Small, tight communities. Even at its peak it wasn't very big.

Mods are also a dying breed, which is sad.

The best thing that could happen to Fortress style play is to develop an indie game. Get a Kickstarter going, get some press on that sucker and see what happens.

[the_cake]

FF kickstarter. I think abs had 5 bucks and I'm sure squeek has some change under the couch.

[nergal]

If anyone has realized this yet on FF, I've been gone for a while. Reason for this is because FF just isn't fun...

don't think I'm saying FF isn't fun because I play TF2, but in fact, both games are boring. I played TFC and had fun in it with soldier and heavy and stuff, but the game is old.

Which is why I went to FF because I wanted to see what it was like to see a Team Fortress game in it's original gameplay, I saw in Wiki Team Fortress all the pre-TF2 classes like Classic soldier and heavy and thought "HEY I wanna try this out! It looks like fun" so after trying out TFC, and liking it alot, but got turned off from it's very dated mechanics and so on, I moved to FF.

FF, to me, seemed more like it was made for competition rather than to be a fun game... so it drove me away from it.

All I ever saw/heard on FF pubs were people bitching about how TF2 is overrated, how pyro is OP even though he's fine; and 2 guys proving who's a better player at soldier or a better sniper....

games made for competition are bad, and you should feel bad......

P.S. The only reason I still play TF2 is because I own a boss mod server. FF could easily have a boss mod with LUA, just make the civilian the boss with 130 melee damage, 519 health per player and slower fire rate for umbrella...

[ddm999]

FF is a fun game.

If you take away the pyros and the snipers.

But WhenWillFFServerOwnersBanPyrosAndSnipersBecauseThe yDon'tBleedingWork?

Also, that hit the too many letters in a line thing again and now there's a space in it. P:

Originally Posted by nergal

All I ever saw/heard on FF pubs were people bitching about how TF2 is overrated, how pyro is OP because he is; and 2 guys proving who's a better player at soldier or a better sniper....

Look, the thing is, the people who moan about TF2 are real TFC guys and they've played it for a billion years and, yeah, if such a dramatic change happens to the series, you will hate it.
You can't just say they're bitching because it happens in EVERY FUCKING SERIES where the devs change something about the game way more than they should have...

Pyro is OP. :P
(So is Sniper).

Hopefully, I don't have to go through why when it's been said many times before.

2 guys proving who's better at a class? I'll be honest with you, I've never seen that happen on anything that's not a duel map which is designed for it.

I personally find FF more fun than TF2 (fucking gimme hats you piece of shit i've played 400 hours and you haven't given me one and now i cant play games against bots locally and still get item drops dammit valve), but I find many games to be more fun than FF.

MechWarrior Online, XCOM:EU, CS:GO, Killing Floor, Payday, GE:S, the list goes on.

I just play FF because:

a) I've spent too damn long learning how to play it to stop now.
b) It's still kinda fun.
c) I can make maps for it (terrible ones, I admit).
d) fucking need to piss off mooney more because i havent done it enough lately

[XPelargos]

We ALL need to piss off moooney more, tbh.

[-mooney-]

Originally Posted by XPelargos

We ALL need to piss off moooney more, tbh.

mooney*

DAMN YOU LARGOS

i think it's going to be really difficult to find any new players for FF simply because:
1-most of tfc players that gave any shit about it have already tried it out
2-most of tf2 players that gave any shit about it will turn away because of servers that are dead almost all the time
3-any other players will most likely find it difficult to get into because they won't find anything familiar. i mean how many games have bhop or rocket jumping? unfortunately, not that many
one of the ways i think we can gain some popularity is convince this fine person to make a video about FF. he's popular in tf2 community and i think that asking him and/or his friends to make a video about it might help. at least it won't hurt

[FDA_Approved]

Idk if it'd be the best idea to have someone make a video, who has no idea how any of the game mechanics work and will just make an ass of themselves for "comedy" sake.

You can see he already made a video for tfc where he did exactly that.

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved

Idk if it'd be the best idea to have someone make a video, who has no idea how any of the game mechanics work and will just make an ass of themselves for "comedy" sake.

You can see he already made a video for tfc where he did exactly that.

yeah, forgot about his tfc video but you get the idea