Merged: Disappointed TF2 and TF2 Impressions

Originally Posted by Gaymer

As we can see in this post there are 2 kinds of fortress players in this world. The kind looking for a totally cool and funny game with totally awesome gfx and animations!!!!!! And then there are those who are looking for a super in-depth, skill based, fast-paced, Capture the Flag from the enemy fortress type game. They will always be different and they will always play different games. The fact of the matter is the latter player is in the minority and it will always be that way. It is like comparing the amount of people that are going to the movies to see your generic shoot-em-up action flick, as opposed to the amount that are going to see the complicated, in-depth social commentary movie. We live in a culture of instant gratification, ladies and gentlemen and if new players can't figure out how exactly to play the game the first 5 minutes, they are going to put it down and never come back. Call it laziness, ignorance, or whatever you want. It might be sad as all hell but unfortunately this is the plight of us. This is the world we live in friends.

Then there are people like this guy bash people just becuase they have diffrent likes (doesnt matter about the graphics, i prefer its gameplay more to). And for the "cant exactly how to play the game the first 5 minutes, I actually played FF till I got TF2, I know how to play it but I just like TF2 more, anything wrong with that? Besides the heavy in FF looks like a hockey player and the shotgun doesnt even have an animation when you reload or shoot (one of those) sometimes I dont even know when im reloading.

Heres just a interesting list I got on the steam website. I went down to FF since theres no point listing the rest of mods and w/e cause they dont even matter in this.

View detailed statistics by game

Game Current
Players Current
Servers Player Minutes
/ Month

Counter-Strike: Source 73,035 48,353 2.505 billion
Counter-Strike Condition Zero 33,325 23,314 1.063 billion
Day of Defeat 7,768 1,902 260.538 million
Day of Defeat: Source 5,425 2,630 191.966 million
Team Fortress 2 4,605 1,875 290.004 million
Half-Life 2: Deathmatch 2,291 1,652 82.325 million
Half-Life DeathMatch 2,276 1,172 80.854 million
Garry's Mod 1,427 916 59.602 million
Earth's Special Forces 759 619 59.387 million
TeamFortress Classic 464 413 21.730 million
Natural Selection 373 221 15.488 million
Fortress Forever 364 311 18.925 million

TF2 hasnt even been released yet, its only availible to the people that preordered it and you can see its allready right up there with Day of Defeat and Halflife2. This is also not a post to bash FF becuase I did like it when I played it, I loved the cloak ability that spys had, I was using it 90% of the time I played it but, like that guy said you cant really compare the two. Ones a game made by valve, that made TFC and ones a mod. More people will play TF2 becuase its gonna be easier to keep up to date how? When you start the game it updates auto-matically, for FF you have to keep searching the internet for a download link for a update of the game, and Ive found that when mods did that with many games like Battlefield 2, Halflife2 Mods etc people allways lose players from having to find an update then wait and wait in ques for a decent download speed site or download the mod at like a /kb a second, then find out it wasnt even the right update.

[Rutabeggar]

Heh...how interesting...because the main FF website is where...OH GOD HERE?! DAMN WTF?! I'm certain that the Devs will upload any patch/bug fix/update/BBQ Recipe to this website so you don't have to delve into the internet and get lost...

I can't recall, but I was almost POSITIVE that the Devs said they will keep this game up to date.

...and OF COURSE people are going to play TF2 more than FF...I mean when you have a marketing monster like Valve...an Independent group can scarcely compete with that kind of money. Don't forget that TF2 will be out for Xbox...so I'm sure using that alone was enough to let everyone know that TF2 will be out soon.

I'm sorry that all the intricate animations aren't there yet, I consider this game in a beta stage much like precious TF2. The difference is that with TF2...there isn't much room to "improve" the game as there are probably only a FEW things Valve will even consider changing before it's release in what...3 weeks now? With FF, the Devs released a rough product, for free, for us, that can be molded and polished, and like a fine wine, get better with age.

I love it, and it's eating my free time. I was very impressed with FF's release, and played it for several days. They did a great job of remaking TFC, and included some improvements. It captures the feel of the old TF games, and makes me feel like I'm playing TFC/ETF again, but with better graphics. I'm surprised at just how well the TF/TFC feel is reproduced on source.

I prefer TF2. It's one of the most polished games I've played, and they did so many things right. The atmosphere and graphics are top-notch, and it's a much more teamplay focused game. I like how the classes are more specialized. For example, the medic is a support class like it always should have been. It's the most fun I've had playing a computer game in a while. They addressed many issues that nostalgic TFC players would never tolerate, like class balance, grenade spam, movement glitches etc.

I get the impression that a lot of the negative sentiment towards TF2 here is because it's not a TFC port. That's FF's territory.

[4est]

Originally Posted by Curlydave

I love it, and it's eating my free time. I was very impressed with FF's release, and played it for several days. They did a great job of remaking TFC, and included some improvements. It captures the feel of the old TF games, and makes me feel like I'm playing TFC/ETF again, but with better graphics. I'm surprised at just how well the TF/TFC feel is reproduced on source.

I prefer TF2. It's one of the most polished games I've played, and they did so many things right. The atmosphere and graphics are top-notch, and it's a much more teamplay focused game. I like how the classes are more specialized. For example, the medic is a support class like it always should have been. It's the most fun I've had playing a computer game in a while. They addressed many issues that nostalgic TFC players would never tolerate, like class balance, grenade spam, movement glitches etc.

I get the impression that a lot of the negative sentiment towards TF2 here is because it's not a TFC port. That's FF's territory.

• FF is not a port of TFC
• FF reduced gren blast radius to reduce spam
• FF maps will have fewer nades available on them to reduce spam
• Bhop was greatly tweaked to enhance gameplay
• HW was given overheat to address balance and is still being tweaked
• Soldier - rocket speed and blast radius were changed to address balance
• Sniper - was given radio tags to encourage teamwork - AR was nerfed to help balance
• spy - wow - the underwent a lot of work for fun, playability and balance
• pyro - had a major overhual to become a viable class
• NG and SG also had several tweaks

...etc.....etc.... I'm blue in the face... etc.

To play down the importance of teamplay in FF is to show ignorance. Join a team, join a league and play FF in matches. You'll find some incredible teamplay.

[uberlongpost]

Now that I've gotten a couple of hours on TF2, I can make fair judgement.

Before anyone jumps the gun, this isn't TF2 bashing. This is my opinion and I'm perfectly entitled to it.

I can see why some people might enjoy TF2, good for them.

Me? No way. Not a chance in hell. I feel like I've been taken into prehistoric videogaming. It's like cavemen bopping each other on the head with wooden clubs. Way too slow paced and dumbed down to enjoy. Maybe removing the respawn timer could salvage it a little, but I'm not so sure. The game is so slow, and they tried to counter that by making the players larger and the levels smaller. Bad idea. I feel like I'm constrained, and that's never a fun feeling.

Scout:
Comfortable speed, not too weak. Very little maneuverability though. Double jump is nice, but often unnecessary. The structure of the maps makes the Scout feel pointless because of the lack of freedom.

Soldier:
Way too slow, and this isn't really compensated by anything. Rockets have little effect when making impact with the environment. Usually only direct or close to direct hits are viable.

Pyro:
No comment. There's really nothing to comment about, there isn't really a class here.

Demoman:
Useless for anything but choke points, even more so than before.

Heavy:
Pretty satisfying. Not much else to say.

Engineer:
Complicated character in simplified game? He's too out of place. They should have dumbed him down more since they dumbed everything else down more.

Medic:
He works. Probably one of the only strong points of TF2's class changes.

Sniper:
Didn't really play it much. Needless to say, he doesn't seem any more fun than he used to be.

Spy:
Complicated character in simplified game? Way too out of place. Really kills the gameplay. As if the game isn't slow enough already, a Spy can just ruin it. Might be a kick for the Spy, but an overall downfall of the game.

I'm not even going to sit here and say the game sucks because there's no nades, bhopping, or that it's not like TFC or FF. That's not why it's a bad game. It's because of the dumbed down, barbaric gameplay. It's slow, and despite what people say, my experience says that it's definitely not as much team-based as before. It's more team-based in that it FORCES teamplay via medichumping, teleporters, and other aspects of the game that don't actually teach players how to operate like a team.

On a complete opposite note, the game is STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL. I'm angry that Valve took 3 steps down in gameplay but 5 steps up in graphics. If I was a graphics whore I'd be all over TF2, 24/7. The graphics, interface, sounds, level design, and all the fine details are incredible...but the actual gameplay fails to deliver. GG Valve.

FF looks ugly as hell compared to TF2, and it has some pretty bad nadespam, but it takes the fast-paced complex gameplay and runs with it. It's a perfect balance for the type of game it's trying to achieve.

TF2 on the other hand, they ran WAY TOO FAR with their simplistic model. It's not a good balance of the game it needs to be. It doesn't need to be FF, but it needs to be a balanced game, in all aspects, not just classes.

[/uberlongpost]

[NyRoNiC]

I havn't played the game yet because I havn't preordered, but...

I don't get why so many people in this thread(and just people debating the TF2 topic in general) are comparing TFC/FF to TF2. Did everybody miss the "2"? Its not TFC: Source, FF is the closest thing to TFC: Source, and it was done well imo. TF2 is a different game from what I've seen, and w/ the "2" thats what it should be. Some people hate it and some people like it.

[Thor-Stryker]

TF2 was simplified for class balance, and it works. In a game that has Team in the title, this one finally connects, forcing players to work as a team. I was suprised when I saw 5 players on my team all rush into the base at the same time, with a medic at the core healing them all.

FF just caters to the more skilled players, which valve isn't looking for, when a medic can fly into the enemy base, infect everyone on the way, kill the sg and the engineer by him self with a grenade, grab the flag and bunny hop to freedom all the while being healed, he becomes a one man team. You'll see it regularly on normal servers.

I used to love TFC, as well I gave FF a shot, but the gameplay just doesn't grab me, its a well polished mod but it doesnt have the umph of teamwork I've been longing for.

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by Thor-Stryker

TF2 was simplified for class balance, and it works. In a game that has Team in the title, this one finally connects, forcing players to work as a team. I was suprised when I saw 5 players on my team all rush into the base at the same time, with a medic at the core healing them all.

FF just caters to the more skilled players, which valve isn't looking for, when a medic can fly into the enemy base, infect everyone on the way, kill the sg and the engineer by him self with a grenade, grab the flag and bunny hop to freedom all the while being healed, he becomes a one man team. You'll see it regularly on normal servers.

I used to love TFC, as well I gave FF a shot, but the gameplay just doesn't grab me, its a well polished mod but it doesnt have the umph of teamwork I've been longing for.

the "team" in team fortress is primarily refereing to teams in the game, defualt of 2 as blue/red.

it's not a reference to "teamplay," although teamplay is rewarded, like other fps that has nothing to do with team fortressing like call of duty

Originally Posted by 4est

• FF is not a port of TFC
• FF reduced gren blast radius to reduce spam
• FF maps will have fewer nades available on them to reduce spam
• Bhop was greatly tweaked to enhance gameplay
• HW was given overheat to address balance and is still being tweaked
• Soldier - rocket speed and blast radius were changed to address balance
• Sniper - was given radio tags to encourage teamwork - AR was nerfed to help balance
• spy - wow - the underwent a lot of work for fun, playability and balance
• pyro - had a major overhual to become a viable class
• NG and SG also had several tweaks

...etc.....etc.... I'm blue in the face... etc.

Those are very minor changes, unless you're so used to a game that that any small change is a big deal. It mimics TFC except for some relatively minor details - the vast majority of the game is the same. Fuck, the changes are smaller than the ones between porting TF to the half-life engine.

To play down the importance of teamplay in FF is to show ignorance. Join a team, join a league and play FF in matches. You'll find some incredible teamplay.

I'm not playing down the importance of teamplay in FF/TFC/TF, I'm saying that it's more important in TF2, and it's harder for one star player to win the game alone.

Originally Posted by LeMaltor

Where's the fortresses, all the best maps are control point

I completely agree, and wish that there were more "fortress" maps in TF2. 2Fort is the only one they included on release. Hopefully more official ones will come later, since I doubt we'll see any custom TF2 maps worth their salt anytime soon. TF2 has more Team, less Fortress. I don't have anything against control points, but part of the fun of TF was always having your big base to defend, and invading the enemy one. I'd like to see more TF2 maps like that.

Where's the fortresses, all the best maps are control point

[4est]

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