how come meds - Page 2

hlstriker · 07-27-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

I disagree, I think it just goes to further the void between the two and will hurt the game in the long run.

If a second medic were added just for pure healing it wouldn't hurt the game at all. Now if that pure healing medic had strong weapons/grenades then yes, it would hurt the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

I also think currently the med is fine.

Almost every pubber knows the current medic is terrible for pubs. If only I had taken a screen shot of every new player that wondered why the medics healing sucked so bad...

I mean come on, if there was a pure healing medic nobody would play him in leagues. If this healing medic were used in league play, the defense would learn to take the medic out first, then take out whoever he was healing (rendering him a useless class in leagues as he should be). As opposed to the more buffed up crappy healing/good combat medic who will still rape in leagues.

The pubs need a healing medic because right now defense ALWAYS wins (unless teams are insanely unbalanced).

killu · 07-27-2009, 10:26 PM

I thought the defense always won because nobody bothered to play offense?

hlstriker · 07-27-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killu

I thought the defense always won because nobody bothered to play offense?

Because offense always gets raped so the players give up.

Credge · 07-31-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlstriker

The pubs need a healing medic because right now defense ALWAYS wins (unless teams are insanely unbalanced).

It sounds more like maps need to be balanced better more than a new class needs to be introduced. Unless you're talking about CTF? In that case, that doesn't even make sense.

Further, I don't understand your logic.

If the offense can benefit from the same classes that a defense can, why would the offense do any better when the defense uses the same classes? See, that sentence doesn't even make sense.

I'll put it another way.

If the offense can use all 9 classes, and the defense can use all 9 classes, how would adding a 10th class that both sides can use benefit one side more than the other, especially when that class revolves around specifically healing his team mates? They wouldn't unless the defense couldn't use it, and then that's really a map balance/lua thing.

Skanky Butterpuss · 07-31-2009, 06:36 PM

i think he is talking about ctf, and i think he is talking more about how in a pub 10v10 ctf game, theres usually 2-3 people playing offence and 7-8 people playing defense.

i might be wrong.

but this second medic business is nonsense if you ask me.

Hammock · 07-31-2009, 07:17 PM

I'd just like to say that I never suggested adding a second medic class. I was pointing out (in regards to the original topic) the fact that our current medic class could be stripped of all healing ability and his performance in his role would be deminished very little.

The medic is an offensive machine, it's very good at what it's designed for, and people seem to think his healing is/should be important. It really isn't.

I'd just like to see(I know it's not going to happen), our current medic completely divided into two seperate classes.

One of the new classes, will get concs, primary nades, super shotty, sng, and perhaps a little something extra to compensate for the fact he lost his healing abilities. Something that would help him or his teammates out on offense.

The other half of the split would be a full on healing medic, with potentially a wide variety of new unique healing abilities/tactics. Maybe something that can run O and D effectively, but would be more of a passive player. This full on healing medic would be pretty much played exclusively in pubs, and the competitive play wouldn't be effected very much at all, cause they'll still have their offensive class they choose our current medic for. Although if you made the class usefull enough I could see it being played in competitive play. The primary requisite for offense is speed and mobility, so if done right it could potentially be a decent O class, you know maybe something inbetween the scout and current medic as far as speed/damage goes. But would claim his spot through usefull tools or abilities.

It's just a pipe dream I know, I highly doubt we'd ever see a radicle change to the game like a new class, we are after all still TFC 2.0

Iggy · 07-31-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock

One of the new classes, will get concs, primary nades, super shotty, sng, and perhaps a little something extra to compensate for the fact he lost his healing abilities. Something that would help him or his teammates out on offense.

How about just fixing his healing abilities? The main problem with the medipad is the hit-detection. Also, it seems very slow. The thrown pads are great.... but they can't be used by the medic that threw them(or maybe even other medics.... I don't know) except for the fact they don't last very long.

Hammock · 07-31-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iggy

How about just fixing his healing abilities? The main problem with the medipad is the hit-detection. Also, it seems very slow. The thrown pads are great.... but they can't be used by the medic that threw them(or maybe even other medics.... I don't know) except for the fact they don't last very long.

Cause it's not about "fixing" his abilities, his healing abilities suck for the type of game that's being played. Everyone dies too much and too fast, and it's more feasible to take a death most of the time than it is to sit around waiting to be healed.

The medkits were pretty decent when they boosted above 100%, but the dev's deemed that "too powerfull". So instead of making a slight change so no medics can pickup medkits, which would have then encouraged other classes to be played with medics instead of running 4 meds, they made them weak and useless.

The only feasible way to have "good healing" is to have a class dedicated to it, to make it a classe's strong point.

Otherwise healing in the game (even if the hitscan were to be fixed), will still always be a joke, cause any form of strong healing in our "combat medic" would over power him, which has already been proven with those medkits to +150%

MonoXideAtWork · 08-01-2009, 12:53 AM

Just a thought:

Give the medic a q2 railgun (for those of you that are a little young, we're talking about a hitscan weapon with visable tracer and a 1.5s refire time) That heals for 100%, I would play d-medic all day. You wanna add some depth? Give it a drawback, like it consumes the medic's life instead of ammo.

also, hammock's idea get's a +1.

Dr.Satan · 08-01-2009, 02:01 AM

You know, reading that I though the same thing. Like why don't we just change the medikit to a gun that shoots projectiles that heal? It would make it way easier to heal, and if it's too powerful, I'm sure we could balance it somehow.

Iggy · 08-01-2009, 10:52 AM

Just be aware that some people that (will) play shoot like Stormtroopers.....

Dr.Satan · 08-01-2009, 02:03 PM

true, but it would be better than how we have it now where you can't heal even if your dead accurate.

Iggy · 08-02-2009, 01:18 PM

Speaking of Stormtroopers.... remember the scene in Episode 4 where they first captured Leia? They shot that roundish blue light at her, stunning her....

How about something like that, that dissipates the farther it goes?

Say, if you are really close to someone, it heals stronger(up to 150%)... and the farther away they are the less it heals them. With a 1-2 second re-firing time?

Similar to Ihmhi's "Goop gun" idea.... but without the "goop".

phisheyes · 08-02-2009, 01:20 PM

yeah but that would still leave a problem of a medic having next to no points
from the current healing but if the was a like a 3 sec time period after some one getting healed by a medic any kills he gets would result as (medic+soldier killed heavy) and medic gets a kill and 50 points and so does the class that killed it

Iggy · 08-02-2009, 01:40 PM

I suggested a change to the Fortress Points. Healing team mates should net you some(they probably do..... but I can't remember).

Hammock · 08-02-2009, 07:19 PM

Ya they do

Credge · 08-02-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

i think he is talking about ctf, and i think he is talking more about how in a pub 10v10 ctf game, theres usually 2-3 people playing offence and 7-8 people playing defense.

i might be wrong.

but this second medic business is nonsense if you ask me.

Yeah, that's kinda sorta what I figured but wasn't sure.

It's really just a map balance and pub problem. Having a class that only heals wouldn't solve squat. Even if it had TF2 style ubers and flew as fast as a scout and had a BFG you'd still get dropped by 14 SG's and a sniper.

Iggy · 08-03-2009, 10:33 AM

^^ Not if you have an option to name the team medic your BFF.

Bridget · 08-03-2009, 10:50 AM

Give Medic and Engineer auras, that do not stack if there are multiple instances of that class. Players near Medic slowly gain health over time, and players near Engineer slowly gain armor over time. Medic+Engy+* powerhouse, go go go. You want more offense and team play? There you go. Fixed. No problemo. Net problema. Alright.

Sh4x · 08-03-2009, 11:51 AM

How about make those auras work only on one side of the map depending on the class.

Medic's aura would work only on offense and engy's aura only on defense.

We already have zones in maps so it shouldn't be that hard I'm thinking.

07-31-2009, 06:36 PM	#25
Skanky Butterpuss Beware the Hammer D&A Member Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Class/Position: Sabotaging your shit. Affiliations: :}\|, mimic, /KBN/ Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i think he is talking about ctf, and i think he is talking more about how in a pub 10v10 ctf game, theres usually 2-3 people playing offence and 7-8 people playing defense. i might be wrong. but this second medic business is nonsense if you ask me. __________________ Support FF: Etzell: Skanky Etzell: The Wings are fucking fantastic Etzell: They really are Etzell: But even SAYING that makes me want to vomit

07-31-2009, 07:17 PM	#26
Hammock D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	I'd just like to say that I never suggested adding a second medic class. I was pointing out (in regards to the original topic) the fact that our current medic class could be stripped of all healing ability and his performance in his role would be deminished very little. The medic is an offensive machine, it's very good at what it's designed for, and people seem to think his healing is/should be important. It really isn't. I'd just like to see(I know it's not going to happen), our current medic completely divided into two seperate classes. One of the new classes, will get concs, primary nades, super shotty, sng, and perhaps a little something extra to compensate for the fact he lost his healing abilities. Something that would help him or his teammates out on offense. The other half of the split would be a full on healing medic, with potentially a wide variety of new unique healing abilities/tactics. Maybe something that can run O and D effectively, but would be more of a passive player. This full on healing medic would be pretty much played exclusively in pubs, and the competitive play wouldn't be effected very much at all, cause they'll still have their offensive class they choose our current medic for. Although if you made the class usefull enough I could see it being played in competitive play. The primary requisite for offense is speed and mobility, so if done right it could potentially be a decent O class, you know maybe something inbetween the scout and current medic as far as speed/damage goes. But would claim his spot through usefull tools or abilities. It's just a pipe dream I know, I highly doubt we'd ever see a radicle change to the game like a new class, we are after all still TFC 2.0 Last edited by Hammock; 07-31-2009 at 07:19 PM.

08-01-2009, 02:01 AM	#30
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	You know, reading that I though the same thing. Like why don't we just change the medikit to a gun that shoots projectiles that heal? It would make it way easier to heal, and if it's too powerful, I'm sure we could balance it somehow. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

08-01-2009, 02:03 PM	#32
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	true, but it would be better than how we have it now where you can't heal even if your dead accurate. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

07-27-2009, 10:26 PM	#22
killu Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: MA Class/Position: Medic Affiliations: Goodfellas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I thought the defense always won because nobody bothered to play offense?

08-01-2009, 12:53 AM	#29
MonoXideAtWork Pub Allstar! Beta Tester Join Date: Aug 2008 Class/Position: under en kvinna Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Eternal Order, Must be h4x, Mono's happy funtime. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Just a thought: Give the medic a q2 railgun (for those of you that are a little young, we're talking about a hitscan weapon with visable tracer and a 1.5s refire time) That heals for 100%, I would play d-medic all day. You wanna add some depth? Give it a drawback, like it consumes the medic's life instead of ammo. also, hammock's idea get's a +1.

08-02-2009, 01:20 PM	#34
phisheyes Join Date: Mar 2009 Class/Position: medic O Gametype: dustbowl Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	yeah but that would still leave a problem of a medic having next to no points from the current healing but if the was a like a 3 sec time period after some one getting healed by a medic any kills he gets would result as (medic+soldier killed heavy) and medic gets a kill and 50 points and so does the class that killed it

08-02-2009, 07:19 PM	#36
Hammock D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	Ya they do

08-03-2009, 10:50 AM	#39
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Give Medic and Engineer auras, that do not stack if there are multiple instances of that class. Players near Medic slowly gain health over time, and players near Engineer slowly gain armor over time. Medic+Engy+* powerhouse, go go go. You want more offense and team play? There you go. Fixed. No problemo. Net problema. Alright.

08-03-2009, 11:51 AM	#40
Sh4x Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	How about make those auras work only on one side of the map depending on the class. Medic's aura would work only on offense and engy's aura only on defense. We already have zones in maps so it shouldn't be that hard I'm thinking.

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