OldTimers/[o-t] Servers bans killing the FF Community? - Page 2

Hammock · 08-06-2008, 05:50 PM

Sometimes I don't even look at what server I'm joining when I choose one, just the map and player count. So sometimes I go into the o-t server and cuss, but it's quickly brought to my attention, and I stop. I can abide by their rules.

The only thing I don't like about their server is the permanent minimum 50 choke I have, no matter how many are in it. 50-100 choke anytime of the day with any number of players. It's a real turn off.

Gwarsbane · 08-06-2008, 06:18 PM

I'll play on any server that has enough people and that is within my ping range. (120 and below)

But if I see 8 or more people playing on OT, I will play there even if there are more people playing on other server. Its because I prefer that environment to hearing people swearing all the time, racist words being used all the time and people playing music over their mics.

A person gets banned in another server that they run for another game, Then I would expect them to ban that person on all their servers, after all the person already proved that they can't follow rules on one server.

Scuzzy · 08-06-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock

Sometimes I don't even look at what server I'm joining when I choose one, just the map and player count. So sometimes I go into the o-t server and cuss, but it's quickly brought to my attention, and I stop. I can abide by their rules.

The only thing I don't like about their server is the permanent minimum 50 choke I have, no matter how many are in it. 50-100 choke anytime of the day with any number of players. It's a real turn off.

Forgive me, what's a choke? Is this done through a group of settings that we may have inadvertently set? What can I do to fix it for you Hammock?

Scuzzy

Credge · 08-06-2008, 10:37 PM

Lets use some logic here.

Popular servers consist of: o-t, AE, and one or two others - I haven't checked recently because I've been busy and don't want to play on a rule restricted server (no cursing, etc... in this case it means I'm playing completely different games due to terribad rules on servers that are played on) when I do get the chance to blow off some steam. The word popular simply means that players play on it, and in reality we should be using populated because popular and FF do not go hand in hand, sadly.

If a player that, for one reason or another, was banned years ago from a TFC o-t server, that person is banned on the FF server as well. So, lets say this chap was banned in an o-t TFC server for BunnyHopping, a mechanic built into FF. This chap has come back from inactivity due to TFC being dull to him, real life, whatever. He sees that there is a new fangled game called Fortress Forever from the cats, or ModDB, or wherever. Maybe he heard about it from a TF2 server. Doesn't matter.

He downloads the game and looks at the list of populated servers. He sees that only one server has played playing (like usual) and it's the o-t server. He joins. He is banned.

What incentive does this person have for sticking around? He has two choices. He can join any random server with 1-2 players on it but he doesn't know if they are bots or not... and why would he want to join a server with no people? The person doesn't know that the community usually joins servers once people join them, he's new.

The argument that "I like that the o-t server is like that, it gives my servers more players" is bad. What if the o-t server wasn't like that, wouldn't you get more players by proxy? When somebody sees that there is only one server filled with people and he's banned from that one server he's not going to want to stick around.

Remove the bans for people who b-hopped, camped, or did insignificant things like cursing or insulting an admin. It's ridiculous that when I glance through the ban list I see a ratio of 20:1 permanent:timed.

The biggest reason why people don't play this game isn't because it's bad, it's because of the community. People tend to forget that servers are the biggest glue to a community and yes, while you do get players going through the o-t server, you're denying potentially every single one of these people (most with minor things that are unrelated to FF and are years old) from playing.

However, I think the it's too late for FF. Even with the advertisement stuff on Steam most of the people that will care about it are probably banned and those that have already tried it lost interest when they found out they were banned from a server on a game they've never even played.

Bad logic is bad.

I mean, I go through the o-t FF ban list and I see tons of names I recognize from players that are/were a core part of the community and I wonder why they are perma banned compared to somebody else who isn't.

Why on Earth do I see more FF bans than TF2 bans? How is this even a possibility?

Scuzzy · 08-06-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge

What incentive does this person have for sticking around? He has two choices. He can join any random server with 1-2 players on it but he doesn't know if they are bots or not... and why would he want to join a server with no people? The person doesn't know that the community usually joins servers once people join them, he's new.

Remove the bans for people who b-hopped, camped, or did insignificant things like cursing or insulting an admin. It's ridiculous that when I glance through the ban list I see a ratio of 20:1 permanent:timed.

Actually if a person is banned by an admin they are 99% chance of being banned perm. We give people plenty of chances, a kick or so, but if they push it they are gone. We give plenty of warnings, if someone's unwilling to follow the the rules after being warned we see no reason to give them another chance to cause trouble in our environment. The temp bans are done by the automated system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge

while you do get players going through the o-t server, you're denying potentially every single one of these people (most with minor things that are unrelated to FF and are years old) from playing.

No, WE are not denying anyone anything. This is where you, and many other people, misplace the blame and responsibility onto the [o-t]. These people have unwittingly denied it to themselves. They are the only ones responsible for their actions, not us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge

However, I think the it's too late for FF. Even with the advertisement stuff on Steam most of the people that will care about it are probably banned and those that have already tried it lost interest when they found out they were banned from a server on a game they've never even played.

I doubt it, I think the last time we ran the numbers for this there were a total of 30 people that had been banned in one of our other servers and then tried FF. We see 20-25 new players on average per day, so that 30 over a 5 year period is insignificant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge

I mean, I go through the o-t FF ban list and I see tons of names I recognize from players that are/were a core part of the community and I wonder why they are perma banned compared to somebody else who isn't.

Maybe the people that weren't banned actually played by the rules?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge

Why on Earth do I see more FF bans than TF2 bans? How is this even a possibility?

We do not have a "FF ban list", only one that spans all the servers. However, we do have 573 bans that occurred in TF2 and 242 that were a direct result of FF issues. So, the TF2 bans do outweigh the FF bans.

Scuzzy

greenday5494 · 08-06-2008, 11:59 PM

scuzzy, give it up. for once,credge is actually right

reaper18 · 08-07-2008, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenday5494

scuzzy, give it up. for once,credge is actually right

greenday, give it up, scuzzy is right again as well.
You see, hes trying to be constructive in arguing points, and is right in doing so, and now you come along and troll, way to make yourself look like a total jackass.
O-T are great people, VERY lenient when it comes to bans and kicks, and very forgiving as well.
I was perm banned for using racism (nigs, but in a friendly context), and took it up with them and we got it sorted out, no biggie, just an honest mistake.
You dont see me bashing them because it was me who messed up, and i have the ability to take responsibility for my actions and ask for their understanding.
Stop bashing them, ffs, it gets old. Credge was constructive, and that works, but to be a total fuck just makes you look bad, greenday, so you, should be the one to give it up.

iniquitous · 08-07-2008, 12:33 AM

Are you people really suggesting that because o-t has banned some idiots from their server, and don't enjoy foul language, this is why FF is unpopular?

Wake up, maybe it's do to the fact that these non-issues are made into issues.
Let's face it; it's lack of advertisement, minimal amount of maps available, and
imo the attitude of the players. This was an unwelcoming community to begin with. Perhaps the reason o-t is "popular" is because it's one of the few severs you can go into and just have a good time playing a good game.

[AE] 82694 · 08-07-2008, 12:48 AM

Thats where your wrong greenday,

Why should you keep giving somebody a chance that has proven themselves a douche. If your getting banned in one mod for cussing/swearing you probably will carry it over to the other ones. If you have changed they do have a system in place to appeal the ban just like we do.

People have the misconception that because it's a "public" server they can do what ever they want because this is the "internet". I brought over my myg0t ban list from HL2 TDM should I erase all those and give them a seconded chance? I also banned a guy by the name of "beerfarts" for child/animalporn should I let him back in?

Fact is servers cost money somebody is paying for that server. The person/group paying for it makes the rules bottom line. People that destroy your server environment that you have set and try to maintain deserve what they get.

If I came over to your house dropped my drawers and shit on kitchen table wouldn't you kick me out and never let me back? You have to respect the house rules your in. When I go to [o-t] server I disable my hommer spray just to prevent an accident.(NOT WORK SAFE LINK)

[o-t] is just protecting their game environment just like any other server owner would. Their rules may be stricter than most peoples but it is their server.

WetWired · 08-07-2008, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge

The argument that "I like that the o-t server is like that, it gives my servers more players" is bad. What if the o-t server wasn't like that, wouldn't you get more players by proxy?

How is that "bad"? By your own admission you desire more populated servers. The fact that so many people are banned from their server actually aids in making your dreams come true. When OT is 15/22, and someone tries to join and is banned, they might not think those servers with 3/20 looks so bad now. They might try joining them, and in no time, there's 2 servers full of people, and so on. Not everyone who is new to this game is new to games in general. Most of them "get" how it works. If they find themselves banned from that server, having never played the game, it's not a guaranteed "fuck this, I'm uninstalling". They may simply go to another server with fewer people. If there aren't any, they may wait until the next night and try again. You're pulling your information out of your ass. You assume they'll do what you think they'll do.

And you talk about flawed logic.

Skanky Butterpuss · 08-07-2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenday5494

scuzzy, give it up. for once,credge is actually right

if you have a problem with the o-t server, take it up with them responsibly, as elwood here did. you have been warned about trolling o-t threads several times (as well as trolling in general), yet you refuse to follow rules. you have been hearby granted one week of time away from the FF forums to read over the rules and commit them to memory.

reaper18 · 08-07-2008, 07:11 PM

Caleb, read my post bro, i did the same thing, you just gotta take it up with them man, they arent bad people.

But i do agree, sometimes a second chance is all people need to get in line, and if they fuck that up, theyre gone.
Sometimes they also dont feel like registering for forums to appeal for a ban, perhaps you shouldnt have to register for the player/clan communication topic scuzz?

[AE] 82694 · 08-07-2008, 09:28 PM

Thats one of the reasons this section is here now. To greater reach people who feel they have been wronged, Let other server admins share info (server plugins,set up,problem players) anything that has to do with our servers as a community.

Giving them another to voice their dissatisfaction with server x for being banned or what ever. But it is up to that server admin if he/she wants to take it up here or in their forums. But at least we have a central place for people to come to find out where to go to. If an admin wants to take it to their forums and the person refuses then it's really on them anyway.

Tsukasa · 08-08-2008, 02:13 AM

Let me quicksum this thread up since i've created about two threads similar to this one and brought up many of the points credge posted myself (before this section of the forum existed and they were heavily edited/deleted)

Scuzzy isn't going to ever change the way his server is run, so if you, like me, see that his banlist is a load of shit, don't ever join his server.

/thread

Scuzzy · 08-08-2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsukasa

Let me quicksum this thread up since i've created about two threads similar to this one and brought up many of the points credge posted myself (before this section of the forum existed and they were heavily edited/deleted)

Scuzzy isn't going to ever change the way his server is run, so if you, like me, see that his banlist is a load of shit, don't ever join his server.

/thread

Not.... my ..... server....

If there is a specific point you want to discuss nicely feel free to make a new post in this section and I can outline the clan's positions on it.

Scuzzy

Circuitous · 08-08-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsukasa

[O-T] isn't going to ever change the way their server is run, so if you, like me, see that their banlist is a load of shit, don't ever join their server.

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

**Ricey** · 08-09-2008, 09:02 PM

How about instead of bitching all day, just Don't Join OT's Server.

is it that hard? If so, please go out, find a real woman, and have sex. Then return, and then talk.

GeoKill-----> · 08-09-2008, 09:04 PM

Ya it's not hard, I tend not to join cause I curse a lot

**Ricey** · 08-09-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoKill----->

Ya it's not hard, I tend not to join cause I curse a lot

.... VIRGINBOY....

Circuitous · 08-09-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricey

How about instead of bitching all day, just Don't Join OT's Server.

is it that hard? If so, please go out, find a real woman, and have sex. Then return, and then talk.

I'd rather they didn't chance producing offspring.

08-06-2008, 10:37 PM	#24
Credge FF Loremaster Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times	Lets use some logic here. Popular servers consist of: o-t, AE, and one or two others - I haven't checked recently because I've been busy and don't want to play on a rule restricted server (no cursing, etc... in this case it means I'm playing completely different games due to terribad rules on servers that are played on) when I do get the chance to blow off some steam. The word popular simply means that players play on it, and in reality we should be using populated because popular and FF do not go hand in hand, sadly. If a player that, for one reason or another, was banned years ago from a TFC o-t server, that person is banned on the FF server as well. So, lets say this chap was banned in an o-t TFC server for BunnyHopping, a mechanic built into FF. This chap has come back from inactivity due to TFC being dull to him, real life, whatever. He sees that there is a new fangled game called Fortress Forever from the cats, or ModDB, or wherever. Maybe he heard about it from a TF2 server. Doesn't matter. He downloads the game and looks at the list of populated servers. He sees that only one server has played playing (like usual) and it's the o-t server. He joins. He is banned. What incentive does this person have for sticking around? He has two choices. He can join any random server with 1-2 players on it but he doesn't know if they are bots or not... and why would he want to join a server with no people? The person doesn't know that the community usually joins servers once people join them, he's new. The argument that "I like that the o-t server is like that, it gives my servers more players" is bad. What if the o-t server wasn't like that, wouldn't you get more players by proxy? When somebody sees that there is only one server filled with people and he's banned from that one server he's not going to want to stick around. Remove the bans for people who b-hopped, camped, or did insignificant things like cursing or insulting an admin. It's ridiculous that when I glance through the ban list I see a ratio of 20:1 permanent:timed. The biggest reason why people don't play this game isn't because it's bad, it's because of the community. People tend to forget that servers are the biggest glue to a community and yes, while you do get players going through the o-t server, you're denying potentially every single one of these people (most with minor things that are unrelated to FF and are years old) from playing. However, I think the it's too late for FF. Even with the advertisement stuff on Steam most of the people that will care about it are probably banned and those that have already tried it lost interest when they found out they were banned from a server on a game they've never even played. Bad logic is bad. I mean, I go through the o-t FF ban list and I see tons of names I recognize from players that are/were a core part of the community and I wonder why they are perma banned compared to somebody else who isn't. Why on Earth do I see more FF bans than TF2 bans? How is this even a possibility? __________________ "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" Ronald Reagan

08-06-2008, 11:59 PM	#26
greenday5494 Holy shit, thats kerrigan! D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Class/Position: D, whatever the team needs, usually engy Gametype: AvD Affiliations: None Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	scuzzy, give it up. for once,credge is actually right __________________ http://static.adrive.com/images/ads/...rbo_468x60.gif DAN MAPES!

08-07-2008, 12:48 AM	#29
[AE] 82694 Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Thats where your wrong greenday, Why should you keep giving somebody a chance that has proven themselves a douche. If your getting banned in one mod for cussing/swearing you probably will carry it over to the other ones. If you have changed they do have a system in place to appeal the ban just like we do. People have the misconception that because it's a "public" server they can do what ever they want because this is the "internet". I brought over my myg0t ban list from HL2 TDM should I erase all those and give them a seconded chance? I also banned a guy by the name of "beerfarts" for child/animalporn should I let him back in? Fact is servers cost money somebody is paying for that server. The person/group paying for it makes the rules bottom line. People that destroy your server environment that you have set and try to maintain deserve what they get. If I came over to your house dropped my drawers and shit on kitchen table wouldn't you kick me out and never let me back? You have to respect the house rules your in. When I go to [o-t] server I disable my hommer spray just to prevent an accident.(NOT WORK SAFE LINK) [o-t] is just protecting their game environment just like any other server owner would. Their rules may be stricter than most peoples but it is their server. __________________ I Love GenghisTron . I miss you sooooo Much. LOL.

08-07-2008, 09:28 PM	#33
[AE] 82694 Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Thats one of the reasons this section is here now. To greater reach people who feel they have been wronged, Let other server admins share info (server plugins,set up,problem players) anything that has to do with our servers as a community. Giving them another to voice their dissatisfaction with server x for being banned or what ever. But it is up to that server admin if he/she wants to take it up here or in their forums. But at least we have a central place for people to come to find out where to go to. If an admin wants to take it to their forums and the person refuses then it's really on them anyway. __________________ I Love GenghisTron . I miss you sooooo Much. LOL.

08-09-2008, 09:04 PM	#38
GeoKill-----> Community Member Server Owner Beta Tester Forum Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hawthorne, California Class/Position: Soldier/Spy/Scout Gametype: AvD Affiliations: :e0:Eternal Order Leader Posts Rated Helpful 12 Times	Ya it's not hard, I tend not to join cause I curse a lot __________________ Fortress-Forever Guides All Your Mapping Needs :e0: Will live on Forever Support FF:

08-06-2008, 05:50 PM	#21
Hammock D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	Sometimes I don't even look at what server I'm joining when I choose one, just the map and player count. So sometimes I go into the o-t server and cuss, but it's quickly brought to my attention, and I stop. I can abide by their rules. The only thing I don't like about their server is the permanent minimum 50 choke I have, no matter how many are in it. 50-100 choke anytime of the day with any number of players. It's a real turn off.

08-06-2008, 06:18 PM	#22
Gwarsbane Slayer of humans D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mostly on earth though in some alt dimensions Class/Position: I'm an Offensive Defensive person Gametype: Fortress Forever Affiliations: I'm a merc, only thing that talks is money Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	I'll play on any server that has enough people and that is within my ping range. (120 and below) But if I see 8 or more people playing on OT, I will play there even if there are more people playing on other server. Its because I prefer that environment to hearing people swearing all the time, racist words being used all the time and people playing music over their mics. A person gets banned in another server that they run for another game, Then I would expect them to ban that person on all their servers, after all the person already proved that they can't follow rules on one server.

08-07-2008, 12:33 AM	#28
iniquitous Join Date: Jul 2008 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Are you people really suggesting that because o-t has banned some idiots from their server, and don't enjoy foul language, this is why FF is unpopular? Wake up, maybe it's do to the fact that these non-issues are made into issues. Let's face it; it's lack of advertisement, minimal amount of maps available, and imo the attitude of the players. This was an unwelcoming community to begin with. Perhaps the reason o-t is "popular" is because it's one of the few severs you can go into and just have a good time playing a good game.

08-07-2008, 07:11 PM	#32
reaper18 sKeeD D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Scout, Demo, Solly Gametype: Any Posts Rated Helpful 21 Times	Caleb, read my post bro, i did the same thing, you just gotta take it up with them man, they arent bad people. But i do agree, sometimes a second chance is all people need to get in line, and if they fuck that up, theyre gone. Sometimes they also dont feel like registering for forums to appeal for a ban, perhaps you shouldnt have to register for the player/clan communication topic scuzz?

08-08-2008, 02:13 AM	#34
Tsukasa Join Date: Sep 2007 Class/Position: O Gametype: CTF Affiliations: mimic- Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Let me quicksum this thread up since i've created about two threads similar to this one and brought up many of the points credge posted myself (before this section of the forum existed and they were heavily edited/deleted) Scuzzy isn't going to ever change the way his server is run, so if you, like me, see that his banlist is a load of shit, don't ever join his server. /thread

08-09-2008, 09:02 PM	#37
Ricey UI Designer Front-End Developer Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2008 Location: Winter Park, FL Class/Position: D Eng Gametype: CTF 9v9 Affiliations: .gr , smr Posts Rated Helpful 46 Times	How about instead of bitching all day, just Don't Join OT's Server. is it that hard? If so, please go out, find a real woman, and have sex. Then return, and then talk.

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