Hide & Seek ideas - Page 2

Desyphur · 12-06-2007, 04:11 PM

It's not really that average of a map, its got tons of hiding places that protect you from longrange death. You have to play it to understand.

A1win · 12-06-2007, 05:20 PM

The point of giving hiders weapons is that they could do something when the seeker finds them. The round lasts only 5 minutes or so, and it doesn't really matter if it sometimes ends earlier to the death of the seeker. It's also makes the games more different each time. The seeker is supposed to be able to kill all the hiders even if they all attack him at the same time. I'll make it so that the damage the seeker receives is reduced depending on the number of hiders, and his damage done increased, to maintain the balance.

Two minutes at the start is way too long for the hiders. I believe we had 30 seconds time at the start, and we always got to our hiding places soon enough. Even when the seeker is released, there's still time to go hiding if you're far away from him.

The map will have lots and lots of places to hide, even more than hunted, for example. The first map we played hide and seek in actually was hunted, but then we noticed there aren't enough places to hide so we had to make our own.

Anyway, the map will be made so that it's easy to change the classes from the lua code if someone wants to. I'm gonna have hiders as scouts (without shotgun and nailgun, or limited ammo for nailgun) instead of civs by default, otherwise it will be too boring for them. Seeker can choose from demoman and medic (but can't change class during the game, otherwise suiciding could be abused to move fast to the start location). During the 30 seconds at the start when the seeker is trapped, he can change class and suicide as much as he wants, but after the cage opens, killing the seeker will end the round to the victory of the hiders.

Just stop worrying about the seeker being too weak against the hiders. This will be tested many times to get the balance right.

nodnarb · 12-06-2007, 07:00 PM

I remembered playing Hide and Seek on Dustbowl with Skanky.

He was the spy which was the seeker. It was pretty fun.

Desyphur · 12-06-2007, 07:08 PM

Wow. I need to hire a Mapper and LUAer to make the real map. We'll see which gets played more I suppose.

The Hiders being able to kill the seeker WHATSOEVER would break the game. It's HIDe...and...seek...not DM, not Hunted, it's HIDE and SEEK. *sigh*

Plus, scout as hider? Can you say "Oh I conc to get away"? And if you're going to remove concs, nailgun, and shotgun for the scout, you leave him with his crowbar...Which makes him just a civilian...

Dr.Satan · 12-06-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desyphur

Plus, scout as hider? Can you say "Oh I conc to get away"? And if you're going to remove concs, nailgun, and shotgun for the scout, you leave him with his crowbar...Which makes him just a civilian...

Correct, but he's a civi who when he dies CAN actually do something like a mini conc map as opposed to just sitting there looking at soda machines!

Desyphur · 12-06-2007, 07:43 PM

Feh, true

But it would make chasing down and killing him really ard. Maybe you could be a scout when you respawn from dieing and when they spawn you again, you turn into a civilian. Cause chasing down a scout isn't as fun.

A1win · 12-06-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desyphur

Wow. I need to hire a Mapper and LUAer to make the real map. We'll see which gets played more I suppose.

I never said I wanted to remake some old TFC map which I've never even played before, so you're right, you need someone else to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desyphur

The Hiders being able to kill the seeker WHATSOEVER would break the game. It's HIDe...and...seek...not DM, not Hunted, it's HIDE and SEEK. *sigh*

Plus, scout as hider? Can you say "Oh I conc to get away"? And if you're going to remove concs, nailgun, and shotgun for the scout, you leave him with his crowbar...Which makes him just a civilian...

Please re-read everything I have said. It's not going to be imbalanced. We have played hide and seek where the hiders have Gauss Gun (with 5 max ammo, not very high dmg with that) and tripmines and even then they had very hard time killing the seeker.

Scouts will have maybe 1 conc at the start, and then maybe getting 1 more every minute or so. They can't use them all the time, and the map won't have large open areas where they could be used that well. Besides, the seeker will also have concs as medic or pipes as demoman and can just jump after them. Scouts can also be slowed down if they are too fast, and the damage done by their weapons can be greatly reduced. Also the scouts' armor can be reduced so that they are easy shotgun food.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desyphur

Maybe you could be a scout when you respawn from dieing and when they spawn you again, you turn into a civilian.

I don't think this can be done. There's no way of changing a player's class automatically, unless point_clientcommand can be used for that, but even then it would be a bit messy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodnarb

I remembered playing Hide and Seek on Dustbowl with Skanky.

He was the spy which was the seeker. It was pretty fun.

Mmh, spy could be fun as a seeker, too... I'm just not sure would it be too imbalanced compared to medic or demoman because of cloaking. However, one thing that spy doesn't have is mobility, so I guess I'll at least try it with spy.

Dr.Satan · 12-06-2007, 09:08 PM

I've played hide and seek on TFC when bored...not on a hide and seek map, but just on like 2fort and we always played with spies, so yeah defninitely test it out!

פֿяαιп βαмαgεפ · 12-07-2007, 12:26 AM

Look A1win, the point is, GO AND TRY these maps on TFC, and you'll see our points exactly.

I totally agree with Desyphur on this one, it's already a lot of fun, so why change the whole thing to some new DM-like idea. HIDE and SEEK, period.

A1win · 12-07-2007, 10:05 AM

It's not going to be changed to a DM-like idea. You obviously haven't tried it with balanced weapons. That's already fun, too, so why change it? It's never ended up in a DM in our mod. As I said, you'll need someone else to remake the maps you are talking about.

Desyphur · 12-07-2007, 04:59 PM

The real point is, you're coming in and messing with the armor, health, damage and speed for the scout, why don't you just stick with Civilian. That you're planning is going to require ALOT more coding, when there's no point.

A1win · 12-07-2007, 07:32 PM

Civilian doesn't have radar, concs and caltrops. Why do you keep telling me the same thing over and over again? I'm not going to have civilians as hiders, it just sounds too boring. If you then want to play the map with civs instead of scouts, all you have to do is to change one or two rows in the lua file.

Desyphur · 12-07-2007, 08:58 PM

Ok, so Caltrops, which will completely prevent the seeker from catching the hider.

Concs, not much to comment here.

And Radar, which will tell the hider that he can run or not.

Seems biased =/

A1win · 12-07-2007, 09:36 PM

They don't have unlimited ammo to them and the seeker will be made more powerful than the class usually is. I've said this earlier, too. >_<

Next time think before posting plz. I'm not going to release the map until we have tested it lots of times to get it balanced.

nodnarb · 12-07-2007, 09:43 PM

Ok, you both have stated your opinions, time to move on.

פֿяαιп βαмαgεפ · 12-07-2007, 11:39 PM

Fine *opens topic's door, walks out*

Desyphur · 12-08-2007, 12:09 AM

*follows Drain Bamaged*

Dr.Satan · 12-09-2007, 05:41 PM

I like it A1win, have you made any progress or even started it yet?

-=bingo-bango=- · 12-10-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1win

[*]What will happen to the hiders who die until the next round?[/list]

Somehow figure out a way to close the respawn room doors after say... 1min, that gives a chance for the ppl to get out, and anyone who died within 1 minute to respawn (from who knows what? drowning). And then after the 1 min, the door to the map closes and a door to a staircase/ladder opens up that goes to above the mapwhere you would make the outside top of the skybox "invisible", add another giant empty box the size of the map above it with "black" walls and ceiling, so its basically a spectate where u can run all over the top of the map.

A1win · 12-11-2007, 02:31 PM

I decided to copy corridors to the map from an old HL2 map I never finished, and add some other places around them. I got the corridors connected but haven't continued after that. Here's a plan of the map showing the corridors from outside: hs_mazement0001.jpg (name sucks, any better ideas?)

The yard will probably have some shipping containers, the cave will have some tunnels going below the map and connecting to the corridors from some holes or something. The computer lab will be combine style with curved descs. I'm not sure what to put to that ??? area but I guess I'll come up with something.

This is how the corridors look from inside: http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/puzzlement/
Those shots are from the HL2 map but I haven't done anything to them yet. When the map is getting ready, I'll do some stuff to make the corridors differ more from each other.

I'm gonna make this map using only HL2 textures and some custom ones if needed, so it can be easily used in other mods, too (I don't have plans to do so yet but just in case).

12-06-2007, 04:11 PM	#21
Desyphur OHH! OHHH NOOO! Wiki Team Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It's not really that average of a map, its got tons of hiding places that protect you from longrange death. You have to play it to understand. __________________ What was left of my sanity implored me not to enter...but that voice was just a whisper now.

12-06-2007, 07:08 PM	#24
Desyphur OHH! OHHH NOOO! Wiki Team Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Wow. I need to hire a Mapper and LUAer to make the real map. We'll see which gets played more I suppose. The Hiders being able to kill the seeker WHATSOEVER would break the game. It's HIDe...and...seek...not DM, not Hunted, it's HIDE and SEEK. sigh Plus, scout as hider? Can you say "Oh I conc to get away"? And if you're going to remove concs, nailgun, and shotgun for the scout, you leave him with his crowbar...Which makes him just a civilian... __________________ What was left of my sanity implored me not to enter...but that voice was just a whisper now.

12-06-2007, 07:43 PM	#26
Desyphur OHH! OHHH NOOO! Wiki Team Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Feh, true But it would make chasing down and killing him really ard. Maybe you could be a scout when you respawn from dieing and when they spawn you again, you turn into a civilian. Cause chasing down a scout isn't as fun. __________________ What was left of my sanity implored me not to enter...but that voice was just a whisper now.

12-06-2007, 09:08 PM	#28
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	I've played hide and seek on TFC when bored...not on a hide and seek map, but just on like 2fort and we always played with spies, so yeah defninitely test it out! __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

12-07-2007, 04:59 PM	#31
Desyphur OHH! OHHH NOOO! Wiki Team Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The real point is, you're coming in and messing with the armor, health, damage and speed for the scout, why don't you just stick with Civilian. That you're planning is going to require ALOT more coding, when there's no point. __________________ What was left of my sanity implored me not to enter...but that voice was just a whisper now.

12-06-2007, 05:20 PM	#22
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The point of giving hiders weapons is that they could do something when the seeker finds them. The round lasts only 5 minutes or so, and it doesn't really matter if it sometimes ends earlier to the death of the seeker. It's also makes the games more different each time. The seeker is supposed to be able to kill all the hiders even if they all attack him at the same time. I'll make it so that the damage the seeker receives is reduced depending on the number of hiders, and his damage done increased, to maintain the balance. Two minutes at the start is way too long for the hiders. I believe we had 30 seconds time at the start, and we always got to our hiding places soon enough. Even when the seeker is released, there's still time to go hiding if you're far away from him. The map will have lots and lots of places to hide, even more than hunted, for example. The first map we played hide and seek in actually was hunted, but then we noticed there aren't enough places to hide so we had to make our own. Anyway, the map will be made so that it's easy to change the classes from the lua code if someone wants to. I'm gonna have hiders as scouts (without shotgun and nailgun, or limited ammo for nailgun) instead of civs by default, otherwise it will be too boring for them. Seeker can choose from demoman and medic (but can't change class during the game, otherwise suiciding could be abused to move fast to the start location). During the 30 seconds at the start when the seeker is trapped, he can change class and suicide as much as he wants, but after the cage opens, killing the seeker will end the round to the victory of the hiders. Just stop worrying about the seeker being too weak against the hiders. This will be tested many times to get the balance right.

12-06-2007, 07:00 PM	#23
nodnarb Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	I remembered playing Hide and Seek on Dustbowl with Skanky. He was the spy which was the seeker. It was pretty fun.

12-07-2007, 12:26 AM	#29
פֿяαιп βαмαgεפ Annoying people since 1986 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Belgium a.k.a. absurdistan Class/Position: O fatty, pyro - D engy, pyro Gametype: CTF Affiliations: This space for rent. Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Look A1win, the point is, GO AND TRY these maps on TFC, and you'll see our points exactly. I totally agree with Desyphur on this one, it's already a lot of fun, so why change the whole thing to some new DM-like idea. HIDE and SEEK, period.

12-07-2007, 10:05 AM	#30
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It's not going to be changed to a DM-like idea. You obviously haven't tried it with balanced weapons. That's already fun, too, so why change it? It's never ended up in a DM in our mod. As I said, you'll need someone else to remake the maps you are talking about.

12-07-2007, 07:32 PM	#32
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Civilian doesn't have radar, concs and caltrops. Why do you keep telling me the same thing over and over again? I'm not going to have civilians as hiders, it just sounds too boring. If you then want to play the map with civs instead of scouts, all you have to do is to change one or two rows in the lua file. Last edited by A1win; 12-07-2007 at 07:39 PM.

12-07-2007, 08:58 PM	#33
Desyphur OHH! OHHH NOOO! Wiki Team Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ok, so Caltrops, which will completely prevent the seeker from catching the hider. Concs, not much to comment here. And Radar, which will tell the hider that he can run or not. Seems biased =/ __________________ What was left of my sanity implored me not to enter...but that voice was just a whisper now.

12-07-2007, 09:36 PM	#34
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	They don't have unlimited ammo to them and the seeker will be made more powerful than the class usually is. I've said this earlier, too. >_< Next time think before posting plz. I'm not going to release the map until we have tested it lots of times to get it balanced.

12-07-2007, 09:43 PM	#35
nodnarb Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Ok, you both have stated your opinions, time to move on.

12-07-2007, 11:39 PM	#36
פֿяαιп βαмαgεפ Annoying people since 1986 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Belgium a.k.a. absurdistan Class/Position: O fatty, pyro - D engy, pyro Gametype: CTF Affiliations: This space for rent. Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Fine opens topic's door, walks out

12-08-2007, 12:09 AM	#37
Desyphur OHH! OHHH NOOO! Wiki Team Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	follows Drain Bamaged __________________ What was left of my sanity implored me not to enter...but that voice was just a whisper now.

12-09-2007, 05:41 PM	#38
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	I like it A1win, have you made any progress or even started it yet? __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

12-11-2007, 02:31 PM	#40
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I decided to copy corridors to the map from an old HL2 map I never finished, and add some other places around them. I got the corridors connected but haven't continued after that. Here's a plan of the map showing the corridors from outside: hs_mazement0001.jpg (name sucks, any better ideas?) The yard will probably have some shipping containers, the cave will have some tunnels going below the map and connecting to the corridors from some holes or something. The computer lab will be combine style with curved descs. I'm not sure what to put to that ??? area but I guess I'll come up with something. This is how the corridors look from inside: http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/puzzlement/ Those shots are from the HL2 map but I haven't done anything to them yet. When the map is getting ready, I'll do some stuff to make the corridors differ more from each other. I'm gonna make this map using only HL2 textures and some custom ones if needed, so it can be easily used in other mods, too (I don't have plans to do so yet but just in case).

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