Stats - Questions

[Dospac]

Two for your consideration. If you aren't familiar with either of these sites, definitely check em out, Scuzzy.

http://blarghalyzer.org/

http://www.konspiracy.org/

[Etzell]

I suggest the first one, mainly because Blargh is awesome.

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

Is it possible to know who fired if they didn't hit anything? How do people determine who is a defender and who is offensive?

Blue guy in red's base

Red is defender

Blue is attacker

It tracks by location at drippy-'s, do not know how it works elsewheres.

[Iggy]

^^^ I think it's once you start across the bridge that you become an "O" player. I could be wrong about that....but I believe that's the "line".

[Pixel]

STATS? You're going to attract mmorpg losers!

[grg]

Originally Posted by Pixel

STATS? You're going to attract mmorpg losers!

And girls!

[Marshmallow Noob]

Girls dont exist on the internets.

[skuLL]

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Noob

Girls dont exist on the internets.

They do, but they disguise as marshmallows to not be discriminated.

[Marshmallow Noob]

Originally Posted by skuLL

They do, but they disguise as marshmallows to not be discriminated.

Okay lets cyber then.

[417]

I'm not fond of stats myself but they do have their place and when a mod is trying to attract a huge player base then they need them.

We used HLStatsX for a while with CTF and got a pretty decent response even though I felt they where curtailed to the player's personal achievements a little to much.

I think the key lies in any team based mod that a lot of thought is put into how the stats are formulated based on the team objective and that they configure stats primarily on the team based objectives - not personal stats.

Short of creating our own stats platform for the FF mod we'll probably have to use one of the two major stats programs out there ho the HL2 platform.

The key would be how the module that is setup for FF is created.

If it was up to me I would do very little personal player tracking of statistical information and it would focus almost solely on the team based objectives that the players did.

That's my two cents worth, what's yours?

[Ihmhi]

Scuzzy has the wicked prgrmzrz skillz though. He probably COULD create his own stats system.

ScuzzyStats?

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

Scuzzy has the wicked prgrmzrz skillz though. He probably COULD create his own stats system.

ScuzzyStats?

That's the general idea.

We used HLStatsX for a while, until it became clear it had some security problems. We e-mailed the developers about the security holes and they didn't seem to care. I'm glad that hlstats was running on it's own web server, otherwise the breach would have been a lot worse.

[StatisticZ]

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

We have a member that gets annoyed with snipers, goes scout and beats them to death. Are you thinking graphs for all weapons or just totals for individual players?

It's probably lil-bastard lmaoooo.. I don't think there's any real skill to using a crowbar tho, you just have to be tricky with ducking / backing away and shit.

[Loader]

1. It DOES attract the wrong kind of people. People will not be team players and just try to get a good K/D ratio.. which is not what we want.

2. You CANNOT limit who uses the system - This will cause arguments like "WTF? if person x can have stats, why cant person y?"

Conclusion, leave the stats out imo. Or show something less kills orientated, Like overall Teamscore (Which would dramatically encourage teamplay).

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by Loader

1. It DOES attract the wrong kind of people. People will not be team players and just try to get a good K/D ratio.. which is not what we want.

2. You CANNOT limit who uses the system - This will cause arguments like "WTF? if person x can have stats, why cant person y?"

Conclusion, leave the stats out imo. Or show something less kills orientated, Like overall Teamscore (Which would dramatically encourage teamplay).

Well, it's fairly easy for me to limit who uses the stats system. For one I can limit it to those who are forum users, which requires registration, and two I can also limit it to regular players as well as forum contributors (who metrics we track players by). Those who don't fall into one or both of those catagories wouldn't be included. This may cause "WTF" arguments, but a note on the stats page will easily explain it. If they want to register into the forums they'd be welcome to bring that issue up... if they flamed up banning both their steam-id and forum account would be easy (since a steam-id is required to register in our forums).

I'm still a bit up in the air on the whole thing, stats in general. I've done what I wanted to do with them for the moment... I will probably add player pages, and some general counts, but wait until FF is out to do any hard-core calculations. The pages that people have suggested have been extremelly helpful in outlining what is cool, what is not, and I thank you all.

Scuzzy

[SkynYrd]

Stats only make sense in league play (aka Konspiracy) because it keeps track of the team as a unit, not necessarily those individuals that comprise it. Some of the most valuable players on a given match night may have the worst kill/death ratios (ex. a Scout/Med that gets shitloads of flag touches, brings it to the FD dozens of times, but never actually gets a cap... or a Sold playing D in an area far from the respawn who will most likely suicide every 2-5 kills). Individual stats only make sense if you track what REALLY matters in a match (such as flag touches, flag carrier kills, SG takedowns, etc). It is TEAM fortress after all... ranking people on frags or efficiency ratios is just dumb.

Also, why the fuck would anyone would anyone want to play at Drippy's 2fort?? Last time I went there it was some anti-bhop shit, and plus it's the same goddamn map over and over.... wtf.

[Iggy]

Might be the same map, but it's NEVER the same game. That's the beauty of TFC. There are maps out the ass, but even one map can't be played the same twice, because of the different styles of the players.

[Jetpac]

Allong the same lines as people: i do not care about my personal stats, my kill/death etc. HOWEVER: i do really like looking at them and seeing how things ranks up against each other.

Stats are good.
however if used ins a BF2/BF2142 type style i can see the arguments for bad :P

[SkynYrd]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Might be the same map, but it's NEVER the same game. That's the beauty of TFC. There are maps out the ass, but even one map can't be played the same twice, because of the different styles of the players.

I'm fully aware of this... I spent the early years of my TFC "career" (read: 1999-2002) doing practically nothing but playing on 24-hour 2fort servers over and over, and it was a blast. I hated bhop, concing, etc. and thought they were expliots.... until one day somone introduced me to the clan/league community. WOW was I taken aback at what I saw. I came to realize though (and this is just my personal opinion) that this was FAR superior to anything I had ever done before in TFC. First of all, the game made more sense... no longer was I running around killing 10 year olds on the same map all day... I had a purpose, a concrete reason to improve. At the same time I realized that bhop/concs/etc were VITAL to this style of play, and it hit me that THIS was what made TFC so great... the myriad of unique skills to learn. So what I'm trying to say is, I will forever hate servers like Drippy's that prevent bhop, because in doing so they are fundamentally altering the game in a way that takes freedom from those who spent a LOT of time mastering these SKILLS (regardless of whether or not they were intended by Valve... they dont have a CLUE what goes on in the upper echelons of leage play... they dont know their own fucking game and would get thoroughly schooled at it now). All day 2fort and shit like that is just so far away from my current perspective of the game... I cannot respect it anymore, sorry. If it were not for bhop and all the other advanced movement skills and tactics, I would have quit this game a long time ago (and I think I speak for more than just myself).

I recently created a similar posting regarding stats in the Ideas/Suggestions sub-forum.

In my opinion, stats serve the most purpose in leagues/tournaments. In these instances stats are already being kept, whether we like it or not, because they are required to determine the winners: total wins/losses and percentages; individual game stats such as total flag caps, etc.

These are the minimum required stats. Individual player stats, while not required, are great for leagues/tournaments because you can use them to determine another team's or even your own team's stronger/weaker players and create/modify strategies around that information (assuming these "teams" are organized).

Individual players can also use stats to identify their own strong/weak areas on specific maps, playing specific positions and using specific classes.

Non-participants of a particular game can view stats to gain a sense of what went on, who did what and who were the key players for that game (doesn't have to be the same people each time).

Leagues and tournaments target the competitive nature of players so stats fit in nice. Public/deathmatch servers aren't really organized and target casual players who could care less about their stats. Stats on public servers cause people to do annoying things just so they can appear at the top of lists. People won't really do things just so their stats look good during organized play because its team-play with a goal in mind.