Whats your view about grenades in fortress games? - Page 2

Circuitous · 05-14-2007, 01:39 AM

Own3r gets killed by random nades a lot (apparently) and bitches about it.

I get killed by random nades a lot and laugh at it.

I love grenades as they are now. I could see them being weaker without a significant gameplay impact (except you'll need to use your actual weapons a lot more often, or run), but really I don't see them as being that big of a problem.

When you guys first played TFC, was it terribly difficult for you to grasp the priming concept? Own3r's complaints keep dreaming up this fictitious newb, certified retarded, who can't comprehend something as simple as "holding the button holds the grenade" even with copious hints.

Beetle · 05-14-2007, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

When you guys first played TFC, was it terribly difficult for you to grasp the priming concept?

Actually, for a good long while I didn't realize I could hold down "f" to prime it. I thought once you pressed the key it was as good as thrown.

Circuitous · 05-14-2007, 02:05 AM

Right but as soon as you knew it was an option, did you not get it?

If the game had flat-out told you "If you hold down this key, you'll hold the grenade - just make sure to let go before it goes off!" would you have gone "derr herr what" and kept spamming mindlessly?

Beetle · 05-14-2007, 02:20 AM

no.

grg · 05-14-2007, 02:22 AM

TF with no frag grens is no TF. Period. There isn't much I can say about this, for me just doesn't... make sense.

There IS a lot of skill involved in throwing frag grens. On TFC, a GOOD medic can kill a soldier with a gren on his foot + 3 or 4 SSG shots. Two good medics with teamplay can kill a soldier on monkey T easily, etc.

I totally dislike the spam, tho. On some of TFC maps, there is a low respawn time for the grenade bag, which sucks. A demoman with 4/2 grens is just too powerful, methinks. But that isn't related to the gren splash/damage, it's a matter of quantity, which hopefully will get fixed on FF.

Circuitous · 05-14-2007, 02:31 AM

Random stupid thought: what if you could only throw (explosive) grenades so often? Like, say, every... ten seconds.

Jiggles · 05-14-2007, 05:08 AM

To be honest I wouldn't cry too much if frag grenades were removed or weakened even more. It would take a surprising amount of re-balancing, though. Plus, I like frag gren jumping, so if they were weakened they'd still need some serious push.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Random stupid thought: what if you could only throw (explosive) grenades so often? Like, say, every... ten seconds.

Hmmm. Maybe, but what's a somewhat plausable reason for that restriction? You have to re-arm the butt catapult?

gizmofo · 05-14-2007, 07:18 AM

I think the differences in FF's and TF2's grenades (or lack thereof) will help differentiate the two games. They are a huge deal and i think that the two games going opposite ways will help in making both games of value.

own3r · 05-14-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gizmofo

I think the differences in FF's and TF2's grenades (or lack thereof) will help differentiate the two games. They are a huge deal and i think that the two games going opposite ways will help in making both games of value.

They are already nothing alike FF doesn't need grenades to be constantly thrown around to be different, its different in a bad way. If they were not there people would actually need more skill to kill rather than just throwing grenades around and getting kills.

PsYcNeT · 05-14-2007, 08:07 AM

...except for the most part, I have yet to see many people get killed by random nade tossing.

If anything, the majority of deaths I see are from burnination

This is all just positional fear mongering, pay no attention to the man covered in egg whites and silver grease paint

rannibunny · 05-14-2007, 08:08 AM

The grens are one of my favourite features in TF.
I feel like a rather jumpy Battlemech with my 2 completely independent weapons. What other game has that?
I also love the death-grens. When I know I'm dieing I try to always have a gren primed (so my teammates can run into it and die a horrible death)||(for the added fun of giving a Darwin-slap ^_^)

Johnny Mullet · 05-14-2007, 02:37 PM

The first thing that really got me hooked on Q3F/ETF is the ability to time the grenade and have it explode in your opponent's face! With practice, you can take out any class with a grenade to the face and a perfectly timed rocket.

own3r · 05-14-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Random stupid thought: what if you could only throw (explosive) grenades so often? Like, say, every... ten seconds.

Heres another, why not only give people one frag grenade so they have to be careful where and when they use it?

PsYcNeT · 05-14-2007, 06:37 PM

I still don't think a single grenade is powerful enough to limit the cap at 1

Beetle · 05-14-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by own3r

Heres another, why not only give people one frag grenade so they have to be careful where and when they use it?

Well in that case we would just blame every mapper - it would be their faults after all.

Sabre · 05-14-2007, 06:59 PM

Keep secondary for sure but make each class have an entirely different one, balance or remove frag grenades.

tu! · 05-14-2007, 07:14 PM

views on grenades? are you an idiot? wtf this thread sucks.

05-15-2007, 04:31 AM

Just take TFCs grenades and make a few changes to it like less damage or less blast radius etc. That way you are standing on the shoulders of giants, easier to make a good game better than to make a great game from scratch (i.e. balance it with no grenades at all)

05-17-2007, 06:50 PM

Been playing the TF series since Quake so it's kind of hard to imagine the game without the grenade spamming (or as much of it) over so many years of playing it, but I personaly think its a step into the right direction.

I personaly like the approaches that both TF2 and TFF are taking in the design.

While grenades are clutch and help both teams evenly, especially those who can utilize them for the best results, I think that reducing the grenades all around will make each individual class that much more unique; namely demos.

If players must rely on their weapons more then ever, it will create a slightly slower paced game in probably the most fact-paced team shooter in the whole genre, which I think is a good thing.

Engineers become more of a threat, which is a good thing. Seeing more demo's should be evident, which is a great thing.

The only thing that worries me are Scouts retaining their spikes (technically a greande) and Medics retaining concs, those are 2 things I'd like to see stay in both games.

Maybe soldiers keeping secondaries since they are.. Soldiers..

3vil9rin · 05-18-2007, 12:41 PM

Without grenades sentry guns would become too powerful. Trying to take down a level 3 with an engy by it just wouldn't happen, which could make certain maps near impossible to cap on.

05-14-2007, 01:39 AM	#21
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Own3r gets killed by random nades a lot (apparently) and bitches about it. I get killed by random nades a lot and laugh at it. I love grenades as they are now. I could see them being weaker without a significant gameplay impact (except you'll need to use your actual weapons a lot more often, or run), but really I don't see them as being that big of a problem. When you guys first played TFC, was it terribly difficult for you to grasp the priming concept? Own3r's complaints keep dreaming up this fictitious newb, certified retarded, who can't comprehend something as simple as "holding the button holds the grenade" even with copious hints. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

05-14-2007, 02:05 AM	#23
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Right but as soon as you knew it was an option, did you not get it? If the game had flat-out told you "If you hold down this key, you'll hold the grenade - just make sure to let go before it goes off!" would you have gone "derr herr what" and kept spamming mindlessly? __________________ Look at all those dead links.

05-14-2007, 02:31 AM	#26
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Random stupid thought: what if you could only throw (explosive) grenades so often? Like, say, every... ten seconds. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

05-14-2007, 02:20 AM	#24
Beetle Beta than eva' Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	no.

05-14-2007, 02:22 AM	#25
grg el matador Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	TF with no frag grens is no TF. Period. There isn't much I can say about this, for me just doesn't... make sense. There IS a lot of skill involved in throwing frag grens. On TFC, a GOOD medic can kill a soldier with a gren on his foot + 3 or 4 SSG shots. Two good medics with teamplay can kill a soldier on monkey T easily, etc. I totally dislike the spam, tho. On some of TFC maps, there is a low respawn time for the grenade bag, which sucks. A demoman with 4/2 grens is just too powerful, methinks. But that isn't related to the gren splash/damage, it's a matter of quantity, which hopefully will get fixed on FF.

05-14-2007, 07:18 AM	#28
gizmofo The Bestest Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think the differences in FF's and TF2's grenades (or lack thereof) will help differentiate the two games. They are a huge deal and i think that the two games going opposite ways will help in making both games of value.

05-14-2007, 08:07 AM	#30
PsYcNeT Black Chancellor Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Calgary, Alberta eh? Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	...except for the most part, I have yet to see many people get killed by random nade tossing. If anything, the majority of deaths I see are from burnination This is all just positional fear mongering, pay no attention to the man covered in egg whites and silver grease paint

05-14-2007, 08:08 AM	#31
rannibunny You are a pirate! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The grens are one of my favourite features in TF. I feel like a rather jumpy Battlemech with my 2 completely independent weapons. What other game has that? I also love the death-grens. When I know I'm dieing I try to always have a gren primed (so my teammates can run into it and die a horrible death)\|\|(for the added fun of giving a Darwin-slap ^_^)

05-14-2007, 02:37 PM	#32
Johnny Mullet Fear the Mullet! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ashtabula, Ohio Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The first thing that really got me hooked on Q3F/ETF is the ability to time the grenade and have it explode in your opponent's face! With practice, you can take out any class with a grenade to the face and a perfectly timed rocket.

05-14-2007, 06:37 PM	#34
PsYcNeT Black Chancellor Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Calgary, Alberta eh? Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I still don't think a single grenade is powerful enough to limit the cap at 1

05-14-2007, 06:59 PM	#36
Sabre Creg Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Keep secondary for sure but make each class have an entirely different one, balance or remove frag grenades.

05-14-2007, 07:14 PM	#37
tu! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	views on grenades? are you an idiot? wtf this thread sucks.

05-15-2007, 04:31 AM	#38
bloody Guest Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times	Just take TFCs grenades and make a few changes to it like less damage or less blast radius etc. That way you are standing on the shoulders of giants, easier to make a good game better than to make a great game from scratch (i.e. balance it with no grenades at all)

05-17-2007, 06:50 PM	#39
Effex Guest Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times	Been playing the TF series since Quake so it's kind of hard to imagine the game without the grenade spamming (or as much of it) over so many years of playing it, but I personaly think its a step into the right direction. I personaly like the approaches that both TF2 and TFF are taking in the design. While grenades are clutch and help both teams evenly, especially those who can utilize them for the best results, I think that reducing the grenades all around will make each individual class that much more unique; namely demos. If players must rely on their weapons more then ever, it will create a slightly slower paced game in probably the most fact-paced team shooter in the whole genre, which I think is a good thing. Engineers become more of a threat, which is a good thing. Seeing more demo's should be evident, which is a great thing. The only thing that worries me are Scouts retaining their spikes (technically a greande) and Medics retaining concs, those are 2 things I'd like to see stay in both games. Maybe soldiers keeping secondaries since they are.. Soldiers..

05-18-2007, 12:41 PM	#40
3vil9rin Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Without grenades sentry guns would become too powerful. Trying to take down a level 3 with an engy by it just wouldn't happen, which could make certain maps near impossible to cap on.

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