United States 2012 Presidential Election

[KubeDawg]

Yeah that and big corporations who control media such as Fox news and News Corp want to make sure THEIR candidate of choice gets elected. This is mostly the reason Mitt Romney is even being considered. He's a crook just like the rest. Ron Paul is the only candidate who is likely to bring about positive change.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Innoc

Closest I think is Ron Paul and he has ALL of the media trying to show him as a straight-jacket candidate. Anyway most of America wants austerity so long as it has no impact on them.

That really depends on how you mean that. Given that people are already feeling "oppressed", I don't see how they can see it as much worse. Really, it depends on each individual, as to how they see it. While some people on the "occupy wallstreet" are looking for a "handout", most of the people who started it are looking for the "even playing field" that America is supposed to be about.

As it stands(and I realize I'm going off on a tangent about this topic here), big corporations are doing whatever they can get away with to maximize profits, while "the little guy" gets fucked, and fucked hard.

To look back at "better times", very few people bitched that corporations were making money hand over fist, because they themselves were able to do well. Now, the huge corporations(which, to be honest, are merging into giant monopolies) are the only ones doing well, and those that make those companies their riches(you know, the ones that make/ship/sell the products/sevices) are barely scraping by.

The cost of said products and services are going up(and the related taxes), while the money workers are bringing in is stagnating. This results in the masses feeling shafted, and getting angry about it. If you look back in history, the dark times are upon us.

One last thing: the "unemployment" rate is a joke. It only states those that are filing for and receiving benefits, not those who are actively seeking employment. Many people have backed themselves into a corner, and would be worse off by taking a minimum wage job, than they would by staying on the unemployment benefits.

I could go on and on about it. Do I blame the wealthy for making money? Certainly not. Corporations exist to make money... and I don't know any sane person who would dispute that. It's the "how" they make money, and what they do with it, that is at issue.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by Iggy

That really depends on how you mean that. Given that people are already feeling "oppressed", I don't see how they can see it as much worse. Really, it depends on each individual, as to how they see it. While some people on the "occupy wallstreet" are looking for a "handout", most of the people who started it are looking for the "even playing field" that America is supposed to be about.

I'm speaking more to what I believe is a grossly unbalanced approach to spending versus taxation on the part of the Fed. I think this is further magnified by a Federal Govt that seems unwilling to recognize that there should be limits on how and where and even whether it should be allowed to grow. I believe that Occupy Wall Street got it wrong and continues to get it wrong. They should be "Occupy DC". Blame Wall Street all that you like but it's the children in DC that should be blamed.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by Innoc

I'm speaking more to what I believe is a grossly unbalanced approach to spending versus taxation on the part of the Fed. I think this is further magnified by a Federal Govt that seems unwilling to recognize that there should be limits on how and where and even whether it should be allowed to grow. I believe that Occupy Wall Street got it wrong and continues to get it wrong. They should be "Occupy DC". Blame Wall Street all that you like but it's the children in DC that should be blamed.

I could not agree with you more. It's great that these people want to do something about the way they feel. But they need to focus their energy on the people that make the rules. Washington writes the laws that these people disagree with. If you want Washington to change the law, tell THEM, not random people following the law. I could go off a bit, but I'm going to control myself.

Policies, and law do need to change however. I think any change is better than the current status. I agree that Ron Paul is running on the best platform. But I sadly don't believe that he will ever win.

[WiFiDi]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

I also think Ron Paul says a lot of things I'd like to see done. However if half of what he was were ever accomplished I'd be amazed. Or terrified, depending on which half.

this is why i could never see my self voting for him. snl said why i like him and don't.

YouTube

YouTube

then there's the rest of the candidates its safe to say i don't like any of the candidates (on both sides) this year.

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

Edit: With Iggy, I'd love to see a 100% change in administration. new congressmen, new president, vice president. Everyone changes. Start Fresh.

this could be useful thank you iggy.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Innoc

I'm speaking more to what I believe is a grossly unbalanced approach to spending versus taxation on the part of the Fed. I think this is further magnified by a Federal Govt that seems unwilling to recognize that there should be limits on how and where and even whether it should be allowed to grow. I believe that Occupy Wall Street got it wrong and continues to get it wrong. They should be "Occupy DC". Blame Wall Street all that you like but it's the children in DC that should be blamed.

I agree with the first half of that, and part of the second. Yes, the government should reign itself in. However, as the Jedi say; "Those who seek power fear to lose it". DC should be occupied just as much as Wall Street.

DC "makes the rules" that Wall Street abides by(or, more accurately; abuses and flaunts), but both are tied together. Wall Street(and the super-rich corporations) has serious influence on DC, and the laws they create.

Both parties are guilty as sin for creating the situation this country is in right now. Greed has taken control of those in power. Money and power is all they care about. More, more, more, and it doesn't matter who they have to destroy to get it.

[KubeDawg]

YouTube

YouTube

haha this guy is a moron

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I agree with the first half of that, and part of the second. Yes, the government should reign itself in. However, as the Jedi say; "Those who seek power fear to lose it". DC should be occupied just as much as Wall Street.

DC "makes the rules" that Wall Street abides by(or, more accurately; abuses and flaunts), but both are tied together. Wall Street(and the super-rich corporations) has serious influence on DC, and the laws they create.

Both parties are guilty as sin for creating the situation this country is in right now. Greed has taken control of those in power. Money and power is all they care about. More, more, more, and it doesn't matter who they have to destroy to get it.

Chicken or Egg? Perhaps introductions would fix this?

"Hi, we're we the people...you represent us? Is this ringing any bells?"

We have two problems.

Out of control government spending growth and fiscal discipline.

and

A government that caters to a specific narrow class of "the people" based on personal gain on the part of the regulators.

To me...the common factor is the scumbags who made it into office. That's why I keep circling back to them. Frankly I don't believe Wall Street cares that the useful idiots are camping in parks, singing Kum-by-yah and shoplifting at nearby stores. It's Washington that we have to change and this "pressure" being placed by "Occupy (insert target here)" is laughable.

BTW...did you hear which bank holds the legal defense funds for the people in Oakland? Yeah....isn't that a big bank?

[Iggy]

Actually, I think it's Washington that we can change, moreso than those Wallstreet assholes. Still, the root cause, is greed.

Wallstreet hires and fires it's own. Washington is full of thieves that "we the people" have put in place. The sad thing is, so many people are disillusioned enough that they believe that their vote doesn't count. Either that, or the next guy they put in, will be bought off and nothing will change.

Change.

There's that word again. Obama ran on a platform of "Change"... and some people bought into it. Others, simply voted for him because he is black. Sadly, many will do the same all over again.

How do we get the message through to everyone? Figure that out, and we can start the Constitionally Legal Regime Change that needs to occur in the US.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Actually, I think it's Washington that we can change, moreso than those Wallstreet assholes. Still, the root cause, is greed.

Wallstreet hires and fires it's own. Washington is full of thieves that "we the people" have put in place. The sad thing is, so many people are disillusioned enough that they believe that their vote doesn't count. Either that, or the next guy they put in, will be bought off and nothing will change.

Change.

There's that word again. Obama ran on a platform of "Change"... and some people bought into it. Others, simply voted for him because he is black. Sadly, many will do the same all over again.

How do we get the message through to everyone? Figure that out, and we can start the Constitionally Legal Regime Change that needs to occur in the US.

So long as that paradigm is preserved wherein party favorites rise and are presented for selection to the masses who know nothing, won't research and vote based on marketing nothing will change. I think that the Internet has the ability to help change that paradigm. That and people being fed up and ready to do something to change it.

[BinaryLife]

People speak about greed like it's the worst thing in the world. Right now, it is out of check and hurting our economy. But when it is managed and controlled it works like the horse pulling a wagon.


Capitalism works, but we need more control over what we've got. Unfortunately that control builds the power that the government has. What needs to happen is trimming. Their should be a huge change in the rules and regs that we have. That would give us a nice boost and change.

The nice part about Ron Paul is that if there were no government involvement then all these big corrupt companies would have collapsed since there would be no bailouts. A debate for another time.

The occupy wallstreet protesters however are doing nothing more than calling a thief a thief. The problem is that these particular people know what they are doing, and don't care. 99% of the country knows what they are doing. Calling them out on it does absolutely nothing. They need to call the government out on not arresting them. Hypothetically. It should be against the law and it should be a problem. You call the right person out and you get better results.

[Atreuce]

I don't pay attention to all the little deals of politics, but I do know our Congress is completely fucked - all parties are crooked - and Mitt Romney makes entirely too much god damn money to only be paying the minimum 13% that he ensured didn't get raised back in 08.

I voted for Obama, and I probably will again. Why did I? The change thing caught on to a lot of people after eight years of bullshit just occurred with Bush. After Clinton left office, we had a surplus in the billions? Bush left, deficit in the trillions. Obama seemed as though shit was going to get fixed... but then I watch CNN, Fox, etc etc, and every time I see a bill of SOME SORT of change (extend unemployment, help the poor, get jobs created) it gets shut out by Repubs and John Boner (i cant spell his name).


Anywho, thats my partial take on why I voted for the blackie, and will do so again. I'm probably completely ignorant on this, but I wanted to post here. So tootles!

[KubeDawg]

Obama has only thrown money at the issue at the expense of you and I and all the other taxpayers in this country. While our wages remain relatively the same, inflation makes the change more quickly in almost every industry, leaving Americans poorer.

That and he signed the NDAA bill which removes your 4th amendment rights, wants to make healthcare a service you are required to purchase, wants to keep troops overseas fighting battles our country started and wants to continue to remove more of your freedoms every day. You know an American citizen can be assassinated anywhere in the world INCLUDING the US without trial, without a judge and jury? You know an American citizen can be detained INDEFINITELY under the law Obama helped pass, without trial, without a judge and jury?

This means our government are now cold blooded murderers because they've ALREADY assassinated an American in Yemen without due process and this means if you are just SUSPECTED of being a terrorist, you can be held for the rest of your life and can't do or say shit about it.

That's the type of President we need...... Obama is not the answer.

Ron Paul may seem a bit nuts, but the MSM continues to villify him because they are run by corporations who have their own interests in mind. Obviously that in itself sounds a bit cooky, but do yourself a favor and inform yourself. Go watch some of the Repub debates, if not more than to just see how all other GOP candidates either have similar platforms to Obama or ones that flat out lie in the debates to get applause, just to appease their base.

Politics in America has been ruined for some time and it's because of this that so many people have become apathetic, no longer giving a fuck about who gets in office because it doesn't matter, they're all the same. Well I'm here to tell you you're wrong. All except ONE GUY are the same. Ron Paul has been consistent in his views for over 30 years, and has some steel cajones. He's stood up for the people FAR more than all other candidates combined. He receives the most military donations than all of the other candidates INCLUDING Obama.

Of course don't take my word for it, I know I'll just get labelled as another crazy Ron Paul supporter. Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...ns_of_Ron_Paul

[Atreuce]

Yea I kind of doubt Obama alone is 'removing all my freedoms'. Both sides are crooked, and listen to money.

This is why I avoid politics - it's just as bad as religion.

[Iggy]

Part of the problem is that the Senate and House piss around too damned much. As stated, both sides listen to the money men that keep them in funds for elections. Obama is no different, really. Although, not all of the blame goes on him(nor any president).

The President is basicly a figurehead. The only real authority he has, is to "sign a passed bill into law", or "veto a passed law". Vetos can be over ridden with a majority vote. Blame really belongs on those who pass those bills, especially when there is no possible way they can read them in their entirety. Tying military spending with some insane bill they want passed, allows them to say "They are voting against giving our military money", which is designed to piss off the families with veterans among them. Meanwhile, if they DO vote for it, there is a provision in there that removes a few of your rights, which their relatives are fighting for. Either way, you're screwed: If the bill passes, you lose rights, if it doesn't, the military loses money.

If you have a shit-load of free time, look over the bills before congress/house now. Read all 8-900 pages of each one. Then you'll understand just how fucked America really is.

[KubeDawg]

I agree. The system we have in place should in theory disallow ANY law from being passed if there is any clause that is unconstitutional. If said law somehow gets passed, but on some future date, they find that something in the bill IS unconstitutional, that part of the bill gets immediately nullified and is no longer law.