Community 'Poll' About Sniper - Page 2

TheKing · 02-12-2010, 06:28 AM

This poll should be taken with a grain of salt. The sample is completely not indicative of the FF community, it takes a unique FF player to frequent these forums. This is NOT a scientific poll.

Further, if I were to vote I would chose the 'tweak/revamp' option as well. I believe that the sniper should be tweaked, but I'm pretty sure that we all disagree on exactly what that entails.

blackout · 02-12-2010, 07:25 AM

Didn't vote in this silly thread for the simple reason that it's obvious the odds in this forum are stacked against sniper advocates. The posters here are FF staff (obviously :P), who seem to agree with those anti sniper for the most part, and people creating threads like this. As stated not an overall even view of the FF community. But I'll say I did appreciate what Buckshot had to say, and if that's the only way people will stop complaining about the sniper I'd get on board with it. Bottom line is he's approaching the situation from an even ground seemingly, and I appreciate that.

Bridget · 02-12-2010, 11:13 AM

Let's be fair. We all know that if the poll had returned results of 0-40 for think Sniper is unfair or think Sniper is fair respectively, you would be praising it as the 'ultimate truth' and an 'accurate representation of how the community thinks'. It should only be taken with a grain of salt when not in your favor.

**Elmo** · 02-12-2010, 11:16 AM

any way of retracting developer input?

Bridget · 02-12-2010, 11:27 AM

The development team should give their opinion. Why shouldn't they? What wrong does the development team do by voting? I believe their opinion should be trusted more than most votes, because they tend to vote based on reason instead of on feeling and bias. "I play Sniper, so of course he's not overpowered! Tur hur." The results without the development team are pretty much the same. Then we'll have to eliminate more people until it becomes a poll in the Sniper's favor, and then the poll will be said to be balanced and fair. OF COURSE.

Like I mentioned above, do you honestly think the Snipers would be complaining about the development team swaying the poll if the majority of the development team votes had been in favor of their class? Come on, of course not. It would be fine then. Every development team member could vote in favor of the Sniper right now, and I wouldn't whine about it. I would actually be more open to changing my view. The Snipers simply make excuses when it comes time to admit some of the truth. Who needs honesty? Until someone can give me a good reason why the devs shouldn't be allowed to vote; I'm not buying it.

**Elmo** · 02-12-2010, 11:56 AM

because we already know what we think and it's probably more useful to know what 'the community' think. We could add our votes on after just as easily anyway

Dr.Satan · 02-12-2010, 05:14 PM

we still can, just look at who voted and you can see what/where our opinions are and then just subtract them if you want to see what the community thinks. I think overall though this doesn't show anything we didn't already know/say a million times.

TheKing · 02-12-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Let's be fair. We all know that if the poll had returned results of 0-40 for think Sniper is unfair or think Sniper is fair respectively, you would be praising it as the 'ultimate truth' and an 'accurate representation of how the community thinks'. It should only be taken with a grain of salt when not in your favor.

That's bullshit - take a statistics class and you'll realize how blatantly inaccurate this poll is. The sample is incredibly fucked - it would be like taking a poll at at starbucks and then claiming that it was an accurate representation of Americans.

By the way - this is from immediately after you started this joke of a poll:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKing

By the way, this forum is absolutely NOT a good representation of the entire FF community. There is a unique demographic that would come from the game, sign up on these forums, and remain relatively active.

And this again on the same day:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKing

these forums DON'T in any way make up a fair sample of the FF community at all

So no, despite the results I would tell you that these results should be taken with a grain of salt. Additionally, the results are not that shockingly in your favor (as though it matters, which it doesn't, because the 'community' poll on these forums is absolute garbage). As stated, if I were to vote I would probably vote to tweak the sniper as well - but we strongly disagree as to what that means.

Bridget · 02-12-2010, 05:30 PM

COOL. STORY. BRO.

Flea Market Fury · 02-16-2010, 01:08 AM

There really is no way to obtain an accurate selection of the FF community without posting an in-game poll. And even then you would need to be particularly careful in your wording so as not to have your own ideas represented within the questions themselves.

Therefore, what good is a poll on any matter? Unless you choose to make a poll for forum users only.

Sry, Bridget... but TK has a point.

Sry TK, sniper is still broke.

Raynian · 02-16-2010, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth

Let's be fair. We all know that if the poll had returned results of 0-40 for think Sniper is unfair or think Sniper is fair respectively, you would be praising it as the 'ultimate truth' and an 'accurate representation of how the community thinks'. It should only be taken with a grain of salt when not in your favor.

SSCUJO · 02-16-2010, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea Market Fury

There really is no way to obtain an accurate selection of the FF community without posting an in-game poll. And even then you would need to be particularly careful in your wording so as not to have your own ideas represented within the questions themselves.

Therefore, what good is a poll on any matter? Unless you choose to make a poll for forum users only.

Sry, Bridget... but TK has a point.

Sry TK, sniper is still broke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSCUJO

has anyone tried letting the population of FF decide?

next patch make the sniper defualt disabled, let the servers enable the sniper if they want. you will see some servers with and some without snipers, see which are more populated over a 1 or 2 month period. this will tell you if the community wants/needs the sniper or if they would just as easily play in a server without one.

chilledsanity · 02-16-2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSCUJO

has anyone tried letting the population of FF decide?

next patch make the sniper defualt disabled, let the servers enable the sniper if they want. you will see some servers with and some without snipers, see which are more populated over a 1 or 2 month period. this will tell you if the community wants/needs the sniper or if they would just as easily play in a server without one.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I follow your logic, but I don't think that's a good idea. People will join whatever server has people and/or if they're playing a map they like. Often you only have about 2 servers going on at one time, with one of them full. So it could very well come down to the decision of play a server with the selected sniper mode or don't play at all. That and there's the risk of all the popular servers picking the same option.

round and round we go...

xks · 02-16-2010, 03:03 PM

Playing as a Sniper is probably the most entertaining thing left in FF.

It's certainly more fun than what usually ends up being a spamfest with the other classes, especially on non-CTF maps.

There's nothing more satisfying in FF than routinely killing/gibbing someone when they barely step out of their base. Not even capping the flag can compare right now and I say that as someone who used to enjoy it a lot more.

I wouldn't say the Sniper class is overpowered either, it's very easy to stop a Sniper from being effective and of all the classes in FF the Sniper tends to require some of the greatest skill. It's certainly not easy to walk around at a snails pace being targetted by 2-3 other Snipers whilst also trying to aim and shoot at several extremely fast moving and unpredictable targets that love taking potshots at you or throwing grenades your way.

Sniper is the only class that doesn't require spam, endless suicide runs or bunnyhopping in order to have fun.

Defence isn't much fun anymore as the game is so skewed to offence. Rockets are too slow, there aren't enough grenades (on many maps) and the lack of push from the SG (and some other weapons) combine to make it an experienced offy players dream ticket.

So yeah, Sniping is good, although it's very dull when it's against other Snipers. Anyone that plays Sniper to focus entirely on killing other Snipers is missing out on the most entertaining part of being a Sniper (usually victims of rage who try to get 'even' with you).

**squeek.** · 02-16-2010, 07:04 PM

Thanks for not even attempting to see it from the point of view of the sniped.

Gwarsbane · 02-16-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

Thanks for not even attempting to see it from the point of view of the sniped.

I am usually the one being sniped, and I have no problem with the sniper.

**squeek.** · 02-16-2010, 07:09 PM

Thanks for assuming that you represent the view of everyone that is sniped.

**mervaka** · 02-16-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xks

<shit>

is that bait or what? gtfo

Bridget · 02-16-2010, 07:49 PM

I can't decide on whether that post was clever parody or trolling or what.

Gwarsbane · 02-16-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

Thanks for assuming that you represent the view of everyone that is sniped.

Well you seemed to have assumed that yourself. I've been on both ends of the rifle, more so on the receiving end and I'm just saying I have no problem with the sniper.

Does this make me the authority on the sniper? No, but it is my opinion. I have played this game since the day it was released, I have played TFC since about 6 months after it was released.

I have been both the sniper and the snipers target as every single class. I would hope that my experience with both games and as every class would carry at least a little bit of weight and not just be dismissed as a disgruntled sniper who doesn't want his one and only class changed or removed.

And like it or not, if the sniper is changed too much or even just totally removed there will be many people in the community who will leave for some other game for good and it won't just be snipers

View Poll Results: Choose all that apply. Do not choose contradictory selections. Be honest.
I enjoy playing as the Sniper in Fortress Forever.	27	38.57%
I enjoy playing against the Sniper in Fortress Forever.	21	30.00%
I believe that the way the Sniper class plays is unfair, broken, etc.	27	38.57%
I believe that the way the Sniper class plays is fair, valid, etc.	20	28.57%
I believe that the Sniper is overpowered.	19	27.14%
I believe that the Sniper is underpowered.	12	17.14%
I believe that the Sniper is balanced.	15	21.43%
I believe that the Sniper should remain unchanged.	17	24.29%
I believe that the Sniper should be tweaked /or/ possibly revamped.	39	55.71%
I believe that the Sniper should just be removed or restricted to fun maps.	18	25.71%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

02-12-2010, 11:16 AM	#24
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	any way of retracting developer input? __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999)

02-12-2010, 11:27 AM	#25
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	The development team should give their opinion. Why shouldn't they? What wrong does the development team do by voting? I believe their opinion should be trusted more than most votes, because they tend to vote based on reason instead of on feeling and bias. "I play Sniper, so of course he's not overpowered! Tur hur." The results without the development team are pretty much the same. Then we'll have to eliminate more people until it becomes a poll in the Sniper's favor, and then the poll will be said to be balanced and fair. OF COURSE. Like I mentioned above, do you honestly think the Snipers would be complaining about the development team swaying the poll if the majority of the development team votes had been in favor of their class? Come on, of course not. It would be fine then. Every development team member could vote in favor of the Sniper right now, and I wouldn't whine about it. I would actually be more open to changing my view. The Snipers simply make excuses when it comes time to admit some of the truth. Who needs honesty? Until someone can give me a good reason why the devs shouldn't be allowed to vote; I'm not buying it. Last edited by Bridget; 02-12-2010 at 11:34 AM.

02-12-2010, 11:56 AM	#26
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	because we already know what we think and it's probably more useful to know what 'the community' think. We could add our votes on after just as easily anyway __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999)

02-12-2010, 05:14 PM	#27
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	we still can, just look at who voted and you can see what/where our opinions are and then just subtract them if you want to see what the community thinks. I think overall though this doesn't show anything we didn't already know/say a million times. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

02-12-2010, 06:28 AM	#21
TheKing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Inside of your Computron Class/Position: O/D Sniper, D Engy, D Soldier Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: s^., :e0:, -=[$D$]=-, -AA-, +SUF, .20, [AH(S)]-r, [ . ]-r Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	This poll should be taken with a grain of salt. The sample is completely not indicative of the FF community, it takes a unique FF player to frequent these forums. This is NOT a scientific poll. Further, if I were to vote I would chose the 'tweak/revamp' option as well. I believe that the sniper should be tweaked, but I'm pretty sure that we all disagree on exactly what that entails.

02-12-2010, 07:25 AM	#22
blackout Join Date: Jan 2010 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Didn't vote in this silly thread for the simple reason that it's obvious the odds in this forum are stacked against sniper advocates. The posters here are FF staff (obviously :P), who seem to agree with those anti sniper for the most part, and people creating threads like this. As stated not an overall even view of the FF community. But I'll say I did appreciate what Buckshot had to say, and if that's the only way people will stop complaining about the sniper I'd get on board with it. Bottom line is he's approaching the situation from an even ground seemingly, and I appreciate that.

02-12-2010, 11:13 AM	#23
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Let's be fair. We all know that if the poll had returned results of 0-40 for think Sniper is unfair or think Sniper is fair respectively, you would be praising it as the 'ultimate truth' and an 'accurate representation of how the community thinks'. It should only be taken with a grain of salt when not in your favor.

02-12-2010, 05:30 PM	#29
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	COOL. STORY. BRO.

02-16-2010, 01:08 AM	#30
Flea Market Fury Join Date: Aug 2009 Class/Position: Medic- O; Demo/Engy- D Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: [TALOS] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	There really is no way to obtain an accurate selection of the FF community without posting an in-game poll. And even then you would need to be particularly careful in your wording so as not to have your own ideas represented within the questions themselves. Therefore, what good is a poll on any matter? Unless you choose to make a poll for forum users only. Sry, Bridget... but TK has a point. Sry TK, sniper is still broke. __________________

02-16-2010, 03:03 PM	#34
xks Exceedingly Correct. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: London, England. Class/Position: Variable Gametype: QuakeLive CTF Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Playing as a Sniper is probably the most entertaining thing left in FF. It's certainly more fun than what usually ends up being a spamfest with the other classes, especially on non-CTF maps. There's nothing more satisfying in FF than routinely killing/gibbing someone when they barely step out of their base. Not even capping the flag can compare right now and I say that as someone who used to enjoy it a lot more. I wouldn't say the Sniper class is overpowered either, it's very easy to stop a Sniper from being effective and of all the classes in FF the Sniper tends to require some of the greatest skill. It's certainly not easy to walk around at a snails pace being targetted by 2-3 other Snipers whilst also trying to aim and shoot at several extremely fast moving and unpredictable targets that love taking potshots at you or throwing grenades your way. Sniper is the only class that doesn't require spam, endless suicide runs or bunnyhopping in order to have fun. Defence isn't much fun anymore as the game is so skewed to offence. Rockets are too slow, there aren't enough grenades (on many maps) and the lack of push from the SG (and some other weapons) combine to make it an experienced offy players dream ticket. So yeah, Sniping is good, although it's very dull when it's against other Snipers. Anyone that plays Sniper to focus entirely on killing other Snipers is missing out on the most entertaining part of being a Sniper (usually victims of rage who try to get 'even' with you).

02-16-2010, 07:04 PM	#35
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	Thanks for not even attempting to see it from the point of view of the sniped. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington

02-16-2010, 07:09 PM	#37
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	Thanks for assuming that you represent the view of everyone that is sniped. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 02-16-2010 at 07:09 PM.

02-16-2010, 07:49 PM	#39
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	I can't decide on whether that post was clever parody or trolling or what.

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