I Don't Hack - Page 2

Trailer · 06-24-2011, 06:20 AM

Ya, the jumping out of the bments straight onto the engy's head and crowbarring him does look quite sketchy =\.

FreaK367 · 06-24-2011, 11:02 AM

I find it stranger that he was playing so badly for the majority of the demo, he very rarely misses me and in the demo he missed about 95% of the time. Last night on OT he was very hard to play against.

And the jumping onto engineers head thing was a bit odd.

Hammock · 06-24-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peppas

I do!

And apparently they said they have a demo, i'll investigate.

Takes a hacker to catch a hacker?

Trailer · 06-24-2011, 04:50 PM

I noticed that too freak, usually hes getting kills left and right. Suddenly someone specs him and he starts pressing the suck button =\.

Undesirable · 06-24-2011, 05:39 PM

Well, I don't know what to say if so many people here seem to think I'm hacking. I knew the engineer in that demo had low health from our previous exchange of fire, and so it would only take one or two crowbars to finish him off. I was also aware that engineers like to wait in the middle of that map for offensive snipers, as most other classes do, so that they can quickly pwn you with their railgun, or knock you into the air with a well-timed grenade etc. Now I'll admit that it did seem suspicious that I happened to land right on his head but I would argue that flukes like this happen all the time in a fast paced game like Fortress Forever. I don't see why, just because it happened to be in a demo that only offers circumstantial evidence if any at all, it is being used against me as the sole basis for a ban. Everyone has good luck and bad from minute to minute in FF. All good snipers can be accused of wallhacking because they have to be able to aim so quickly to succeed. Anyone can record a demo for a couple of minutes that shows them performing badly one second and then scoring an "odd" kill. How about if I record some FRAPS of myself every time I'm playing well. Would that convince anyone? Probably not. For now, keep recording all the demos you like on other servers.

KubeDawg · 06-24-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer

I noticed that too freak, usually hes getting kills left and right. Suddenly someone specs him and he starts pressing the suck button =\.

Not to take sides, but the more I play, the shittier I get. I generally start off playing really good, and then as I progress into a couple hours or more of gameplay, my skills start to drop off significantly.

SadPanda · 06-24-2011, 07:53 PM

I'm up in the air with this one, I've played with Undesirable many times and I don't think this shows much of anything. I've done some pretty random shit and that crowbar off the battlements is some pretty random shit. If I was being accused of hacking and being watched in spectate i'd feel under pressure and start to suck pretty hard as well. Evidence of DFA hacking is insurmountable compared to this. I don't make the rules though, nor do I have any power but i'd say unban him and let him play. If he gets suspicious, watch him again.

This is just my opinion, nobody get butthurt over it.

Hammock · 06-24-2011, 08:55 PM

Phrases like "That sure does seem suspicious" isn't a very solid arguement, it involves no hard evidence, it's mearley the opinion of someone who really doesn't know what they're doing. Someone credible would have to come out and say if he was hacking or wasn't hacking for me to actually take a side, and nobody of that reputation has said anything yet.

I do find it funny though reading stuff like "Oh he was making unbelievable shots then as soon as we went to spec him he was mediocre at best". Okay, lets say he was a hacker, how obvious do you think it would be if he made some hacked shots on you, and you instantly jumped into spec to record him?

I mean seriously, it'd be like a couple cops staking out a drug house in a cop car with their lights and sirens on.

I remember back in TFC when I was an admin on a server and we wanted to catch a hacker we'd have to be cleverer than the hacker to do it, sometimes the hacker wasn't that clever and it was pretty easy, but other times it took multiple people through the course of a couple weeks secretly watching and reviewing logs and recorded demos with tools specifically designed to show us much more, to finally get the guy to slip up. None of that "Hmm that sure is suspicious" crap, that sure wouldn't hold up in any court of law.

Trailer · 06-24-2011, 09:45 PM

Evidence isn't solid enough to ban him from my server. It's a little sketchy, but not solid enough.

Peppas · 06-24-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock

Takes a hacker to catch a hacker?

Now come on man! I know I was in Goodfellas but that doesn't mean i ever hacked in the past. My record is cleaner than skillet's wee wee ROFL

. After looking at the demo twice, he had ample time to see the target and shoot (unlike DFA). Yes the engi crowbar was fishy but I could hear the engi thrusting his spanner. So my verdict is innocent due to lack of evidence.

FreaK367 · 06-24-2011, 11:09 PM

In the future to catch a hacker, people should try to be quiet about it. Just say "brb phone" or something random, and go spectator, and only one of you do it, record the demo, then bring it here.

Calling someone a hacker then 2+ people going spectator is obvious and if someone was hacking, they could just stop.. and the demo would catch nothing. Oh and, if the "hacker" kills you, then you instantly go spectator, that's really obvious you're going to spec them. People have done it to me, but I've got nothing to hide so I just continue doing my thang.

Anyone who is innocent, shouldn't lower their standard of gameplay if someone decides to spec you. Just play like you normally would and anyone who knows you as a regular will vouch that's just skill and nothing more.

Think how much "The King" gets called a hacker because he is really good at sniper, he makes unreal shots, but it's just because he has honed his skills, and it's the only class he plays :/. I just give up on sniping if King joins the opposite team, he is unplayable to me.

yfni · 06-25-2011, 03:26 PM

I agree that it's hard to proof someones cheating unless it's blatantly so.

Take pickups; all games are recorded and demos are always directly available after the game and remain available till the end of time.

Although they are often downloaded with the intend to proof someones cheating it hardly ever results in an official accusation. And even then the evidence is usually not enough to convict.

Hammock · 06-27-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peppas

Now come on man! I know I was in Goodfellas but that doesn't mean i ever hacked in the past. My record is cleaner than skillet's wee wee ROFL

. After looking at the demo twice, he had ample time to see the target and shoot (unlike DFA). Yes the engi crowbar was fishy but I could hear the engi thrusting his spanner. So my verdict is innocent due to lack of evidence.

Lol, just bustin your balls dude

You know I've never thought of you as a hacker

Chickenprotector · 06-29-2011, 04:59 AM

I've played with Undes before. I can tell you that he doesn't hack.

From what I saw you were being too predictable. Mix it up and stop doing the same thing over, and over again.

On the plus side, most players can be fully aware of others below them when the players slipped beneath the battlements while they were being watched or the player above heard them... *cough* walk and don't shoot *cough*

I've done this before and I realized that later on while I was playing around with king.

aware · 06-29-2011, 03:46 PM

lol'd at thread title

Undesirable · 06-29-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chickenprotector

From what I saw you were being too predictable. Mix it up and stop doing the same thing over, and over again.

They were being predictable on purpose to try and "catch me out" and eventually ban me no matter how thin the evidence.

At this point, I don't even care if I remain banned if there's so much hate for people who play the sniper class a lot and happen to kill a certain admin too many times.

I was authorized on the TALOS forum several days ago, but I'm not going to waste my time posting there, as it's quite obvious that I'm unlikely to be given the benefit of the doubt. Everything's been said that can be said here, anyway.

**Elmo** · 06-30-2011, 01:33 AM

you been playing much since 2.42? Or have you played at all?

FreaK367 · 06-30-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undesirable

I was authorized on the TALOS forum several days ago, but I'm not going to waste my time posting there, as it's quite obvious that I'm unlikely to be given the benefit of the doubt. Everything's been said that can be said here, anyway.

You should still fight your case on their forums, I don't think many Talos guys browse the FF forum, one of them even told me he's never coming here ever again... most of the Talos guys might be absolute tools, but some of them like Skywalker are good people, and if he made the decision, you would probably get another chance.

Undesirable · 06-30-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo

you been playing much since 2.42? Or have you played at all?

Yes, I've played it for a couple of hours. Been difficult because TALOS is sometimes the only populated server when I want to play. Why do you ask?

eomoyaff · 07-02-2011, 04:52 PM

Hey man, RQ's is around and it's a really good server. If people want to ban you for the stupidest accusations (Because you're a really damn good sniper. Right there at Kings level I'd say,) then it just proves that they can't handle your level of play. At RQ we actually commend people for advancing their skills in the game. I'm not primarily a fan of the sniper, but for anyone to put that much effort just to shoot someone in the face... Hilarious and commendable. I'll have to get back with the guys and see whats going on. Be well Undies.

06-24-2011, 06:20 AM	#21
Trailer [Caleb] Beta Tester Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: South Carolina Class/Position: O Scout, D demo and Engy Gametype: Attack / Defend Affiliations: -nZ [LAW] TG M\|M TRISPIRAL (Back in the TFC days) Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	Ya, the jumping out of the bments straight onto the engy's head and crowbarring him does look quite sketchy =\. __________________ You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

06-24-2011, 04:50 PM	#24
Trailer [Caleb] Beta Tester Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: South Carolina Class/Position: O Scout, D demo and Engy Gametype: Attack / Defend Affiliations: -nZ [LAW] TG M\|M TRISPIRAL (Back in the TFC days) Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	I noticed that too freak, usually hes getting kills left and right. Suddenly someone specs him and he starts pressing the suck button =\. __________________ You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

06-24-2011, 07:53 PM	#27
SadPanda Endangered Beta Tester Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Class/Position: Depends on the mood Gametype: ALL OF THE ABOVE Affiliations: [S&N] [U3] Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	I'm up in the air with this one, I've played with Undesirable many times and I don't think this shows much of anything. I've done some pretty random shit and that crowbar off the battlements is some pretty random shit. If I was being accused of hacking and being watched in spectate i'd feel under pressure and start to suck pretty hard as well. Evidence of DFA hacking is insurmountable compared to this. I don't make the rules though, nor do I have any power but i'd say unban him and let him play. If he gets suspicious, watch him again. This is just my opinion, nobody get butthurt over it.
	1 members found this post helpful.

06-24-2011, 08:55 PM	#28
Hammock D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	Phrases like "That sure does seem suspicious" isn't a very solid arguement, it involves no hard evidence, it's mearley the opinion of someone who really doesn't know what they're doing. Someone credible would have to come out and say if he was hacking or wasn't hacking for me to actually take a side, and nobody of that reputation has said anything yet. I do find it funny though reading stuff like "Oh he was making unbelievable shots then as soon as we went to spec him he was mediocre at best". Okay, lets say he was a hacker, how obvious do you think it would be if he made some hacked shots on you, and you instantly jumped into spec to record him? I mean seriously, it'd be like a couple cops staking out a drug house in a cop car with their lights and sirens on. I remember back in TFC when I was an admin on a server and we wanted to catch a hacker we'd have to be cleverer than the hacker to do it, sometimes the hacker wasn't that clever and it was pretty easy, but other times it took multiple people through the course of a couple weeks secretly watching and reviewing logs and recorded demos with tools specifically designed to show us much more, to finally get the guy to slip up. None of that "Hmm that sure is suspicious" crap, that sure wouldn't hold up in any court of law. Last edited by Hammock; 06-24-2011 at 08:55 PM.
	1 members found this post helpful.

06-24-2011, 09:45 PM	#29
Trailer [Caleb] Beta Tester Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: South Carolina Class/Position: O Scout, D demo and Engy Gametype: Attack / Defend Affiliations: -nZ [LAW] TG M\|M TRISPIRAL (Back in the TFC days) Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	Evidence isn't solid enough to ban him from my server. It's a little sketchy, but not solid enough. __________________ You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

06-24-2011, 11:02 AM	#22
FreaK367 Everyones favorite FreaK D&A Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: England Class/Position: Scout, Engineer and Sniper Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 17 Times	I find it stranger that he was playing so badly for the majority of the demo, he very rarely misses me and in the demo he missed about 95% of the time. Last night on OT he was very hard to play against. And the jumping onto engineers head thing was a bit odd.

06-24-2011, 05:39 PM	#25
Undesirable Not A Hacker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Plymouth, United Kingdom. Class/Position: Offensive Sniper Gametype: Semi-CTF Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well, I don't know what to say if so many people here seem to think I'm hacking. I knew the engineer in that demo had low health from our previous exchange of fire, and so it would only take one or two crowbars to finish him off. I was also aware that engineers like to wait in the middle of that map for offensive snipers, as most other classes do, so that they can quickly pwn you with their railgun, or knock you into the air with a well-timed grenade etc. Now I'll admit that it did seem suspicious that I happened to land right on his head but I would argue that flukes like this happen all the time in a fast paced game like Fortress Forever. I don't see why, just because it happened to be in a demo that only offers circumstantial evidence if any at all, it is being used against me as the sole basis for a ban. Everyone has good luck and bad from minute to minute in FF. All good snipers can be accused of wallhacking because they have to be able to aim so quickly to succeed. Anyone can record a demo for a couple of minutes that shows them performing badly one second and then scoring an "odd" kill. How about if I record some FRAPS of myself every time I'm playing well. Would that convince anyone? Probably not. For now, keep recording all the demos you like on other servers.

06-24-2011, 11:09 PM	#31
FreaK367 Everyones favorite FreaK D&A Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: England Class/Position: Scout, Engineer and Sniper Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 17 Times	In the future to catch a hacker, people should try to be quiet about it. Just say "brb phone" or something random, and go spectator, and only one of you do it, record the demo, then bring it here. Calling someone a hacker then 2+ people going spectator is obvious and if someone was hacking, they could just stop.. and the demo would catch nothing. Oh and, if the "hacker" kills you, then you instantly go spectator, that's really obvious you're going to spec them. People have done it to me, but I've got nothing to hide so I just continue doing my thang. Anyone who is innocent, shouldn't lower their standard of gameplay if someone decides to spec you. Just play like you normally would and anyone who knows you as a regular will vouch that's just skill and nothing more. Think how much "The King" gets called a hacker because he is really good at sniper, he makes unreal shots, but it's just because he has honed his skills, and it's the only class he plays :/. I just give up on sniping if King joins the opposite team, he is unplayable to me.

06-25-2011, 03:26 PM	#32
yfni Join Date: Sep 2009 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I agree that it's hard to proof someones cheating unless it's blatantly so. Take pickups; all games are recorded and demos are always directly available after the game and remain available till the end of time. Although they are often downloaded with the intend to proof someones cheating it hardly ever results in an official accusation. And even then the evidence is usually not enough to convict.

06-29-2011, 04:59 AM	#34
Chickenprotector Flamer of Worlds D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Your anus Class/Position: Pyro (O) Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	I've played with Undes before. I can tell you that he doesn't hack. From what I saw you were being too predictable. Mix it up and stop doing the same thing over, and over again. On the plus side, most players can be fully aware of others below them when the players slipped beneath the battlements while they were being watched or the player above heard them... cough walk and don't shoot cough I've done this before and I realized that later on while I was playing around with king. __________________ Stupidity at its finest usually involves a bottle of bewz, a pack of idiots, and a gaming device.
	1 members found this post helpful.

06-29-2011, 03:46 PM	#35
aware D&A Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	lol'd at thread title

06-30-2011, 01:33 AM	#37
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	you been playing much since 2.42? Or have you played at all? __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 06-30-2011 at 01:33 AM.

07-02-2011, 04:52 PM	#40
eomoyaff The Crowbar Commander Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Statesville, NC Class/Position: Anything. Gametype: CTF/CP (AvD needs fixing) Posts Rated Helpful 28 Times	Hey man, RQ's is around and it's a really good server. If people want to ban you for the stupidest accusations (Because you're a really damn good sniper. Right there at Kings level I'd say,) then it just proves that they can't handle your level of play. At RQ we actually commend people for advancing their skills in the game. I'm not primarily a fan of the sniper, but for anyone to put that much effort just to shoot someone in the face... Hilarious and commendable. I'll have to get back with the guys and see whats going on. Be well Undies.
	1 members found this post helpful.

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