Aardvark is awesome

[mervaka]

try sticking an SG on the bridge coming off the switchroom..

[halo]

I'd be interested to see how a good sniper does on it.

[Ihmhi]

Since the testerz played this map a lot, we saw both ends of the spectrum in great detail - how to O on this map and how to D.

Defense, you basically have a minimum 3 point defense. Someone at the top of the ramp to do initial damage - a Sniper or HW works very well here. SGs can fail terribly at the top of the ramp because someone can pick it off from the distance.

Someone at the security button does work, but it is not entirely necessary - having someone at the laser side of the flag works wonders as they can watch the water entrance as well.

And, of course, someone covering the open side. A SG opposite the flag works very well here.

If you have the people to spare on D, a sniper is ridiculously effective on this map, especially with all of the places he can hide. Taking cover in the brush somewhere in the yard (or under the bridge!) is far more effective than just standing in the doorway or the deck. Even if you can not kill incoming O, hitting them with a radiotag will do more than enough for your team.

As for offense, pretty much any class can rampslide up the main ramp after hitting the booster. Fastest way in - Scout. Drop a conc on the respawn deck and prime another - the two concs will be enough to get you to the booster (or damn near). Do a couple hops (of the bunny variety if possible) and hit that booster. Go up the ramp, and when you actually hit the ramp, crouch to rampslide. If you can pull this off, you will smack into the wall very fast, and hey, you are in the base. That is the first step to mastering O on this map. As you get better, you can try priming a conc as you go up the ramp to whip around and head towards the flagroom.

A lot of people have complained that the yard in this map is too large - that is intentional. Most people on O will go with a certain strategy: boost themselves across the yard with some sort of special ability. For Medics and Scouts, that ability is conc grenades. For heavier classes, though, they have to sacrifice health (Demo's pipes, Solly's rockets, Pyro's IC, etc.). This was a very deliberate element of the design on caesium's part to encourage lighter classes to be on offense.

Having said all of this, I believe this map is one of the prime examples of what makes a good map in Fortress Forever. It is very difficult to lock down and completely stop people from getting the flag - all defense can really do is try to slow the enemy's caps while getting plenty themselves. That is what I believe makes a good map in FF - a great difficulty in locking it down and lots of offensive opportunities.

Kudos to caesium on his first map, and you can bet your super shotgun that whatever else he cooks up in the future will be greatly anticipated and enjoyed by all.

[caesium]

Originally Posted by mervaka

try sticking an SG on the bridge coming off the switchroom..

Not v useful as it won't stop good offy getting sec, then it leaves the fr very open.

Best 4 man setup I've seen so far is what rebo said:

1. HW top ramp. Try to damage everyone as much as possible, but don't worry about not killing lots. Give comms, and stop offy nailing SG from far.
2. Demo on flag.
3. Engy FR. If the SG keeps getting taken down, just keep rebuilding it close to a bag. Having any sg up essential to support the demo as rebo was saying.
4. Sol on the ramp between hallway and FR protecting the SG (laser side when sec is down, but listen to coms from HW and move sides accordingly). He can go defend sec when it's up if he thinks the fr is stable without him there.

The key to this strat is that the demo is supported by the engy, the engy is supported by the sol, and the sol is supported by the HW. So a team of 4 good defenders working together well can really make life hard for the offy, but if the defence has a weak link then the offy can work together to exploit that weak link (i.e. pick on the defender that the weak link is supposed to be supporting) and break the defence down.

I'm sure there are other good strats out there to be found, but that's the best I've seen so far. The other interesting thing is how you adapt as the flag moves...

[halo]

Of course the whole idea of it being an offensively based map will back fire completely if people decide that it needs 5 defence. Locking it down then would be a whole different matter.

Personally I don't like it that much. I like balanced maps, ones with chokepoints where I don't feel like dead weight as a soldier.

[caesium]

Originally Posted by halo

Personally I don't like it that much. I like balanced maps, ones with chokepoints where I don't feel like dead weight as a soldier.

It is balanced if the def and offy are the same skill level, but I agree it's definitely not a good map to learn to play def sol on if the enemy team have good offy! There are plenty of other maps with little choke points you can learn to play sol on first tho. I love playing def sol aardvark fr, it's awesome, and I hope others enjoy it too once they get the hang of the classes and the map

Not expecting everyone to like this style of play ofc, but I love it (especially when you've got a good team around you), and I'm glad a few others seem to like it also

[Ihmhi]

D solly on aardvark:

OPTION THE FIRST:

Airshot practice! Hit the people coming up the main entrance ramp. If you can not hit 'em with an airshot, well, try to wing 'em with a wallshot!

OPTION THE SECOND:

Stand near the flag. When someone goes for it, shoot your rocket at the flag. If they do not die, they get hurt! Fire additional rockets to finish them of.

OPTION THE THIRD:

Stand ON the flag. Fire away.

[caesium]

lol ihmhi, hehe... I don't think I've ever even attempted an airshot on aardvark, it's unreliable and there's no need to if you got your tactics right. Also, it's best to have a demo on the flag (but you could stand there as a sol if you really wanted to I guess!).

The sol needs to try to protect the SG and let it do the killing! Tip for new ppl tho: standing top of little ramps is always a good idea as sol, as the offy will most likely use the ramps for slides, so that's your chance to stop them (block them with yourself or with rckts, anything to disrupt their move), and you'd be amazed how much you can help your team defend the flag without too much practice.

[Led]

2 sgs are f*cking funny also, specially if its me and Bobo <3 we tend to goof around and tk haha

[Lt Llama]

I agree completelly about aardvark's awsomeness. Its versatile, very cosy atmosphere, and you can test so many differant things with ever class. Btw, if you havent tried giving each team a car and do some car offy, do it . Riding up that ramp in full speed with rockets heading straight at you is great. But stopping good concers who use a hh on the ramp is almost impossible. With a bit of training they can strafe around the bend and no sg have time to react, even less any human def player. But the ramps is great. Another corny thing you can do is to turn the boat over, jump into it and shoot the front with your shotgun, a very slow way to get from one base to the other the waterway, but fun . Running it 24/7 now in wait for skillsmaps

85.114.140.42:27015 Euroskillz ff_aardvark 24/7 - www.euroskillz.eu

[halo]

I got a few air rockets on Aardvark ramp because a lot of offy go in a straight line all the way up so it's two dimensional aiming, you just having to aline yourself with their path. it was the same deal playing flag sol on openfire in TFC. Could get loads of air rockets on people concing out the water because they tended to go in straight lines.

Can't rely on it though because you have to be alined with them and it is a wide ramp.

OPTION THE FOURTH

Spend all map conced, being shotguned and spammed to death by medics that are miles away from you. Close them down, they conc over you or back off and keep hammering away at you.

It's not that I'm getting owned on Aardvark, I manage to hold my own and don't die too much, it's just I can only weaken people before they're through and I don't get any satisfaction from that (unless I'm a pyro and they're on fire .) It doesn't fit the way soldier plays. I miss loads of shots too because there's so much long range fighting, again not a soldier's strength. There are no corners to back DMers into and shoot them up against the walls. It feels like you spend the half of the map when you're conced using grens and the other half using the shotgun.

[caesium]

If you're trying to play sol top of main ramp then read the strats we were talking about in the earlier posts (an hw top main ramp and a sol fr on the ramp between hallway and fr is a great combination).

[barronofhellion]

i dunno i like it, i was sniper ( i suck at sniper ) and was having a blast ... pritty crazy map.. wild concing

[Everything]

I usually snipe any medic , scout or spy coming up the main ramp. Even though I sometimes die by the medic or scout, it's pretty fun.
Anybody tried using the IC like a mortar down the main ramp? it's funnn.

[SmellyCat]

Originally Posted by Led

2 sgs are f*cking funny also, specially if its me and Bobo <3 we tend to goof around and tk haha

Flag stealing mofo.

[A Boojum Snark]

With the mention of SGs I'd like to add to what I said in that the concers I mentioned were moving fast enough that the SGs could not lock on or track them fast enough to hit them with more than 2 bullets. This was the big thing that made it hard

[Rawd]

I want someone to tell me that they can triple yellow pipe jump from 1 ramp to the other. I have tried it hundreds of times and I swear to God, I am only missing the edge by 1/2 an inch! I have yet to do it.

[barronofhellion]

lol jumping there and landing at what health ?

[Rawd]

I can usually triple pipe jump off the ramp and land the enemies speed ramp with 25 health and 30 armour remaining. Depends on your timing when you explode the bombs. Sometimes I land with a thud!

[Jiggles]

If you put an SG in the right spot and support it with a demoman, concers will have a hella-tough time moving the flag much w/o first taking down the SG.