The Mosque

[squeek.]

I don't think Innoc's post has been replied to enough.

[YomMamasHouse]

Well, now that you mention it.

If there is any pretense of "living in peace" then they should build elsewhere.

Nothing says living in peace like a nice GTFO.

[Bridget]

Any minute now, Innoc is going to complain about people 'attacking' him in order to ditch the conversation like he always does. I feel it.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by squeek.

I don't think Innoc's post has been replied to enough.

I think you're right. I know I'm done with it and I'm done with the spoon feeding those who can't seem to figure out what I posted.

...that the right to assemble and the right to speak out are not mutually exclusive. The same people can't seem to process and comprehend what is meant when it's stated that I am unaware of anyone saying, "Hey infringe on the rights of ______." It's always been expressing unhappiness over the siting choice and the suggestion/desire that they build elsewhere.

Originally Posted by YomMamasHouse

Well, now that you mention it.
Nothing says living in peace like a nice GTFO.

Actually I did not mention it or think it. That's you filtering what I said to suit the conclusion you reached before I ever posted.

[Iggy]

Innoc, you crack me up. No one said you didn't have a right to your opinion...you were simply asked to explain the reasoning behind yours. So now you claim to be a victim in the thread, and are taking your ball and going home.

[YomMamasHouse]

Its kinda hard to have a productive discussion when you won't explain your reasoning. There is no point in making a statement telling us to be ashamed, saying that the mosque should be moved, then not giving any reasoning for it. It leads us to susptect that your rationale is the same as the TV pundits who share the same views.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Innoc, you crack me up. No one said you didn't have a right to your opinion...you were simply asked to explain the reasoning behind yours. So now you claim to be a victim in the thread, and are taking your ball and going home.

Truth is I'm extremely busy IRL and this feels like "more of the same" that is typical for here. Crazy Carl is ashamed of his countrymen...you and ymh assume that I am trying to squash someone elses Rights or Freedoms when I've expressed no such thing nor is that my position. Why should I explain where I am coming from when it seems clear you guys have already made your decision on my "views" even though it has no relation to what I've posted? (shrug)

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Innoc

Why should I explain where I am coming from when it seems clear you guys have already made your decision on my "views" even though it has no relation to what I've posted? (shrug)

Yeah, the last thing I want to do when people wrongfully interpret my opinion is to clarify my opinion as to avoid the misunderstanding. That would just make no sense at all. Herp to the derp.

Innoc does this on every thread. He says something vague and suspicious, then when someone calls him on it, he acts all condescending and states something like "I'm done with the spoon feeding those who can't seem to figure out what I posted." while ironically complaining he's being personally attacked.

[qwertyuiop]

Originally Posted by Innoc

Truth is I'm extremely busy IRL and this feels like "more of the same" that is typical for here. Crazy Carl is ashamed of his countrymen...you and ymh assume that I am trying to squash someone elses Rights or Freedoms when I've expressed no such thing nor is that my position. Why should I explain where I am coming from when it seems clear you guys have already made your decision on my "views" even though it has no relation to what I've posted? (shrug)

Damn you guys are good, you called it perfectly.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Innoc

I think you're right. I know I'm done with it and I'm done with the spoon feeding those who can't seem to figure out what I posted.

...that the right to assemble and the right to speak out are not mutually exclusive. The same people can't seem to process and comprehend what is meant when it's stated that I am unaware of anyone saying, "Hey infringe on the rights of ______." It's always been expressing unhappiness over the siting choice and the suggestion/desire that they build elsewhere.

Actually I did not mention it or think it. That's you filtering what I said to suit the conclusion you reached before I ever posted.

I could make a wall of text by quoting all of the posts on the first page, but it wasn't until after your second post that someone called you a bigot. You also never answered my "Church near the Murrow building in OK" question.

[BinaryLife]

Innoc, why not just ignore the bs part of the posts and look at the real facts that were represented. Like that it isn't a mosque. Or that it isn't at ground zero. Wouldn't those issues have a serious impact on your opinion? If not then why don't they?

We jump to the conclusion of bias and distaste of all muslims because we can't think of another reason for this community center to be opposed. So if you have one sharing that reason would shed some light on your opinion and your reasoning would it not?

[Bridget]

[CRICKETS CHIRPING]

[Crazycarl]

Scuzzy wouldnt have given up so quickly

If you think i shouldn't be ashamed of people spreading hate and prejudice in my country's name, or that i'm mistaken, prove me wrong.

[WiFiDi]

ok i think what it really rules down to is this. why are they building a mosque, Muslims built mosques over christian sacred places, to claim victory. so that being said from a christian/paranoid person, point of view this could be considered just that. (hell that may be the reason there actually making the mosque.) however i really don't think that's the case or that it should be a huge issue. now if they were building right directly on top of ground zero it would then be a legit reason to have a beef.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by WiFiDi

ok i think what it really rules down to is this. why are they building a mosque, Muslims built mosques over christian sacred places, to claim victory. so that being said from a christian/paranoid person, point of view this could be considered just that. (hell that may be the reason there actually making the mosque.) however i really don't think that's the case or that it should be a huge issue. now if they were building right directly on top of ground zero it would then be a legit reason to have a beef.

Ignoring the point that has been made a billion fucking times already, which is that the building plans call for a cultural center open to all religious and non-religious people and NOT a Mosque like the scaremongers want you to believe, can you show me some credible sources that confirm the Muslim 'build a Mosque to claim victory and conquest' bullshit? A lot of people have been mindlessly parroting that claim every since Newt Failgrich said it, and I don't consider something coming out of the words of a bigot to hold any respect for the truth.

Here are the facts.

1. It's a cultural center. It has plans for a basketball court among many other things. It's apparently open to religious and non-religious peoples. It does favor Muslim folk, considering that's the base religious practice for the building, but it's not a Mosque. It won't be exclusively Muslim. It won't be blaring calls to prayer five times a day. It won't be towering over the street in any intimidating fashion as to instill fear. It's just a fucking cultural center. (If it were a Mosque, still, who gives a shit?)

2. It is not being on ground-zero like some many dumb-ass Americans think. It isn't even being built 'a rock throw away' like some people want you to believe. It's actually a few blocks away hidden between abandoned buildings, which lead me to my next point. Why did they choose so close to ground zero? Well, the real estate there is super fucking cheap considering many people have closed down their businesses and left since the attack. The price of the building and its construction, while well into the millions, is 'pocket change' compared to the price they would have been charged elsewhere.

3.: Whether intentional or not, the building near ground-zero allows them publicity. Their message, however, is not aggressive or negative. They have said multiple times the center is open to everyone. It was created to honor those Muslim-Americans who died in the attacks. It was created to show they're part of the community as well. The location helps them get that message out. If it, again, were built anywhere else, it would be some vague mosque in some vague city without a public message of peace. Well, it might still be on the news because contrary to popular belief, no matter where you try to build a Mosque in this country, you're assaulted and protested against by retardo bozo fuckin' hick-ass 'merikunz who only believe in freedom when it's relevant to their self-interest.

4. The community's consent on this building's construction is irrelevant to whether it actually gets built. The construction could have began the second the prospectors decided upon putting the center there, but they decided to get the community's say on the matter. This meant being subject to death threats, heavy protesting, and intolerance. The dumb-ass Americans are the only ones doing wrong in this scenario. You people need to grow up.

5. Why is it in bad taste they're building it near ground-zero? If a Christian church had went up, it would have been revealed as some total place of peace and mourning to the victims. There's already a church up that many firefighters went to during the days after the attack. This, however, is in bad taste? Is it because they're Muslim? Islamic? What's wrong with that? OH!? The people who committed the terrorist attacks were Muslim? So what? Are you equating Islam with terrorism? The religion you knew nothing about before the government began its propaganda plan? Are all Muslims terrorists now? No? So, what's the problem?

In short, the only way you see this planned construction as in bad taste is if you equate Islam with terrorism and presume every Muslim is a terrorist. End of story, good night, let me tuck you the fuck in and hit you in the face with a hammer. No more lying through your teeth. No more bullshit. Just admit you're for freedom in theory ('Well, they have the freedom, but') just not in practice ('they shouldn't build it.') where it really matters. Admit you're a bigot. Admit your intolerance. Just let it out! Maybe if you do, Innoc, like all those closeted homosexual Republicans, you'll one day come to enjoy freedom no matter who exercises it and help society progress in the right direction.

[YomMamasHouse]

Originally Posted by Innoc

Rights or Freedoms when I've expressed no such thing nor is that my position. Why should I explain where I am coming from when it seems clear you guys have already made your decision on my "views" even though it has no relation to what I've posted? (shrug)

We wouldn't have jumped to conclusion if you had explained it initially. If your arguments are not the same as the TV conservative pundits then all you have to do is explain them to us and we will not attempt to argue against points you didn't make (ok, certain individuals will, but they can't be helped). I don't even see why you would state your views in the first place if you wouldn't give your rationale, or provide it when asked.

[Bridget]

Innoc can't explain his the ultimate reasoning behind his opinion on the cultural center because that would reveal himself as the bigot he is. Why do you think he consistently dodges the conversation when the focus turns to his reasoning and opinions? Why do you think he has to constantly opt out of the conversation by calling everyone else aggressors and pretending to be a victim? It's bullshit. Why waste people's time lying through your teeth? Why waste time with the excuses? Just admit you're a bigot so we can move on.

[YomMamasHouse]

I have a legitimate interest in seeing what his reasoning is so could you at least take him on his word that he isn't rehashing O'Reilly and Hannity please.

[Bridget]

You got it backwards. I'll presume that until he provides me with a good reason to believe otherwise.

[YomMamasHouse]

Yes but if you antagonize him it will delay the process.