Should FF evolve or stick to TFC - Page 2

Dr.Satan · 05-05-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

No, no, you two are at least remotely involved in development of this not-entirely-Team-Fortress game, you clearly have no idea what a Team Fortress game is.

ooopps...forgot. Carry on then:

trepid_jon · 05-06-2008, 12:51 AM

I didn't read everything yet, but put me down for an evolve vote.

I'd really like to try some non-FPS stuff in this Team Fortress universe of ours. And I'd like to try out new things, like the man cannons.

Innoc · 05-06-2008, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trepid_jon

I didn't read everything yet, but put me down for an evolve vote.

I'd really like to try some non-FPS stuff in this Team Fortress universe of ours. And I'd like to try out new things, like the man cannons.

What was the hunted map where the Fatass was shot out of a cannon and the snipers had to hit him mid air?

Man...I was SUCH a hunted map junkie in my TFC days... Makes me wonder if I should try my hand at mapping for FF...

puppychow · 05-06-2008, 01:15 AM

pull?

teh_rape · 05-06-2008, 01:21 AM

This thread makes me laugh. FF people make a change (e.g. AC for hw..jump pad..etc) and then people complain that it's not like TFC was... but then make posts like this saying they want more change? (not directed towards whoever created this thread)

Innoc · 05-06-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puppychow

pull?

Could be!

TheWetMule · 05-06-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh_rape

This thread makes me laugh. FF people make a change (e.g. AC for hw..jump pad..etc) and then people complain that it's not like TFC was... but then make posts like this saying they want more change? (not directed towards whoever created this thread)

Its obvious the community is split, some want change some don't.

Blueiii · 05-06-2008, 01:49 AM

I agree with most of what is on here. To me the FF focus on CTF gameplay focuses too much on veterans and "pros" of the game. This leaves all the new players confused when they start doing what they normally do in other games, which is kill anybody on the other team, even if is in the middle of the yard or near the respawn or driveway, dressing room, wherever its not "allowed". So what should be done? Change that a little bit. Keep the same concept of marching into enemy territory and taking their pride and joy which is their flag, but have it done with less confusion. Maybe instead of two bases with two teams, two offenses, two defenses, simplify it and have one base, with a defensive team, and a respawn area/small base for the offensive team. Yes its kinda like AvD but on CTF based gameplay. After a certain amount of time/caps the teams would switch, the defense would attack and the offense would defend. You can take something away, like a base, but still stay true to the original.
Just throwing in an idea, feel free to criticize/bash/tellmetonotfixwhatisntbroken/flame/whatever.

Suite307 · 05-06-2008, 02:01 AM

What the fortress genre needs is innovation, bhopping needs to get out, classes need more customization ( no unlockables ). Efforts need to be rewarded. FF isn't doing a lot of those. It's pleasing only a small fraction of the fortress fans and the others and potential fortress players are playing TF2.

Rutabeggar · 05-06-2008, 03:21 AM

Perhaps we could offer a split in the mod if you will...kind of an extreme idea, but it's just something that popped into my head as I was reading.

Split the mod into 2 separate games, updating on alternating months, leaving FF as it is now updating and polishing it, and developing Team Fortress Forever as a separate mod based on what has already been made, only emphasizing the Team aspect, much like TF2, only less...TF2ish...o_O.

It's crazy, I kinda scoffed at the idea as I was typing it, but it's just something to think on

GeoKill-----> · 05-06-2008, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

No, no, you two are at least remotely involved in development of this not-entirely-Team-Fortress game, you clearly have no idea what a Team Fortress game is.

You are so fucking right

pF · 05-06-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bokko

Evolve does not necessarily mean doing what valve did with TF2

Yes, qft.

I'd love to hear some of your ideas though, trepid jon..

chilledsanity · 05-06-2008, 12:57 PM

First off, I think "evolve" is the wrong word unless the improvement in gameplay is so black and white obvious there's no debate. I think one problem FF may have is that it has to cater to two crowds. On one side there are the CTF league players who want to hone stuff down to a science and play a game that can really show off their skill and tactics. On the other hand there are people who want the insanity or exotic gamemodes FF has to offer, commonly seen in stuff like AvD, murderball, Hunted, waterpolo, etc.

Right now I think FF is more oriented towards the former (league play) since that's where most of the playerbase seems to be. It wants to please everyone, but there can be very differing opinions on what people want. I think what might be the best idea (and would be a bit of a radical jump) is to go for an outright split. Develop an "old school" mode where FF gets designed for league play from the ground up, listening and forming a consensus from the top clans, ignore pubber comments, and design it to be the best league play possible.

At the same time, make a "fun mode" where emphasis is on being able to pick up the game easily, have more outrageous gameplay modes, and constantly experiment with new ideas to add to the mix (like jump pads from 2.0 for example). "Old school" mode wouldn't change much, but would rather be slowly refined, "fun mode" would have new changes and features whenever they could be implemented and tested out. The rules would have to be different for both modes and have a clear distinction, but I think it would end up being the best of both worlds.

SoBe Green · 05-06-2008, 12:57 PM

The funny part about this would be:

TF - Original TF not at all like TFC.
TFC - TF remake not at all like TF except for classes.
TF2 - Created by the same guys that made TF and TFC. Not at all like TF or TFC except for classes.

FF - not at all like TF, more like TFC, not just like TFC.

A four year old could tell you that this "TF Recipe" doesn't exist. Every TF game has not been a clone of the past TF game. TF2 is no less a TF game than TFC was. FF is no more a TF game than TFC was.

Someone get this imprinted on a bat and I'll beat people until they have some common sense.

bokko · 05-06-2008, 02:41 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by 'TF recipe' as that implies some pre-defined formula, this is more of a quesion about staying true to the gameplay seen in TF and TFC.

TF, TFC and FF are all very similar - fast paced, full of advanced movement tecniques.

TF2 is in its own league with respawn delays, Command Point exclusive gameplay, forcing of people to work together.

More can be said, there's no simple way of defining what is in line with the classic TF gameplay and what is not. What is apparent is that TF2 is moving in an entirely new direction that strays off from previous incarnations. Now, what sensible people realise is that should FF ever take the same path as TF2 it would lose its greatness. The classic gameplay would be lost forever and we would see a washed out TF2 clone that pales in comparison and that has no originality.

KubeDawg · 05-06-2008, 02:51 PM

Well, I certainly don't want this to be like TFC as far as the speed of the gameplay goes. I played TFC for the first time in maybe 6 months, went soldier, and he and his rockets are UBER fucking slow. I keep saying to myself the rockets need to go faster in FF, but they're way faster than in TFC, hell, everything is faster. FF is like TFC on steroids... I like the dynamic gameplay and style of TF based games, and in FF, it shows it well, but I think some things do need to change, and some don't. You cannot live your life trying to make everyone happy, and like it or not, you will always have a biased opinion on the game as do the devs and everyone else, so, if you bitch and whine about wanting new features or wanting FF to stay like TFC, nothing gets done, or change happens without your oh so important consent. I like the direction Aftershock is taking this mod, and while we can sit here and debate this shit for hours, I doubt he will read it, and even if he does, it's not like it matters anyway. Sometimes it's good to conform, as long as your leader is a good one.

BlisTer · 05-06-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I think what might be the best idea (and would be a bit of a radical jump) is to go for an outright split. Develop an "old school" mode where FF gets designed for league play from the ground up, listening and forming a consensus from the top clans, ignore pubber comments, and design it to be the best league play possible.

No, the clan scene can't survive without the pub foundation.

Also, to all the people that want FF to evolve towards TF2 elements, go find and contribute to communities that are modding TF2 to be more tfc. This small community can't afford to be split up with ppl running in 2 opposing directions, let FF just run its own course.

dys · 05-06-2008, 06:29 PM

Evolve us an entirely new class.

Perhaps a robotic female with boob shooting rockets.

KubeDawg · 05-06-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dys

Evolve us an entirely new class.

Perhaps a robotic female with boob shooting rockets.

OH MY GOD BEST IDEA EVAR!

dys · 05-06-2008, 06:40 PM

I've actually got time vested into creating this character, watch out. lol But seriously, i always thought it'd be interesting to introduce an entirely new character. Nobody's really done that that I know of.

05-06-2008, 12:51 AM	#22
trepid_jon Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Class/Position: D Civilian Gametype: Rocket Jousting Affiliations: EAFD Posts Rated Helpful 78 Times	I didn't read everything yet, but put me down for an evolve vote. I'd really like to try some non-FPS stuff in this Team Fortress universe of ours. And I'd like to try out new things, like the man cannons. __________________ Support FF: Trepid steamcommunity.com/id/trepid_jon/

05-06-2008, 02:51 PM	#36
KubeDawg Nade Whore Server Owner Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oklahoma Class/Position: Scout/Soldier Gametype: CTF/TDM Affiliations: blunt. Moto Posts Rated Helpful 128 Times	Well, I certainly don't want this to be like TFC as far as the speed of the gameplay goes. I played TFC for the first time in maybe 6 months, went soldier, and he and his rockets are UBER fucking slow. I keep saying to myself the rockets need to go faster in FF, but they're way faster than in TFC, hell, everything is faster. FF is like TFC on steroids... I like the dynamic gameplay and style of TF based games, and in FF, it shows it well, but I think some things do need to change, and some don't. You cannot live your life trying to make everyone happy, and like it or not, you will always have a biased opinion on the game as do the devs and everyone else, so, if you bitch and whine about wanting new features or wanting FF to stay like TFC, nothing gets done, or change happens without your oh so important consent. I like the direction Aftershock is taking this mod, and while we can sit here and debate this shit for hours, I doubt he will read it, and even if he does, it's not like it matters anyway. Sometimes it's good to conform, as long as your leader is a good one. __________________ Moto's Funhouse \| Dallas, TX - 74.91.114.247:27015 ff_plunder - Complete

05-06-2008, 01:15 AM	#24
puppychow Arf! D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	pull?

05-06-2008, 01:21 AM	#25
teh_rape Supa-leet-cap-a-cop Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	This thread makes me laugh. FF people make a change (e.g. AC for hw..jump pad..etc) and then people complain that it's not like TFC was... but then make posts like this saying they want more change? (not directed towards whoever created this thread)

05-06-2008, 01:49 AM	#28
Blueiii Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I agree with most of what is on here. To me the FF focus on CTF gameplay focuses too much on veterans and "pros" of the game. This leaves all the new players confused when they start doing what they normally do in other games, which is kill anybody on the other team, even if is in the middle of the yard or near the respawn or driveway, dressing room, wherever its not "allowed". So what should be done? Change that a little bit. Keep the same concept of marching into enemy territory and taking their pride and joy which is their flag, but have it done with less confusion. Maybe instead of two bases with two teams, two offenses, two defenses, simplify it and have one base, with a defensive team, and a respawn area/small base for the offensive team. Yes its kinda like AvD but on CTF based gameplay. After a certain amount of time/caps the teams would switch, the defense would attack and the offense would defend. You can take something away, like a base, but still stay true to the original. Just throwing in an idea, feel free to criticize/bash/tellmetonotfixwhatisntbroken/flame/whatever.

05-06-2008, 02:01 AM	#29
Suite307 Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	What the fortress genre needs is innovation, bhopping needs to get out, classes need more customization ( no unlockables ). Efforts need to be rewarded. FF isn't doing a lot of those. It's pleasing only a small fraction of the fortress fans and the others and potential fortress players are playing TF2.

05-06-2008, 03:21 AM	#30
Rutabeggar D&A Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Perhaps we could offer a split in the mod if you will...kind of an extreme idea, but it's just something that popped into my head as I was reading. Split the mod into 2 separate games, updating on alternating months, leaving FF as it is now updating and polishing it, and developing Team Fortress Forever as a separate mod based on what has already been made, only emphasizing the Team aspect, much like TF2, only less...TF2ish...o_O. It's crazy, I kinda scoffed at the idea as I was typing it, but it's just something to think on

05-06-2008, 12:57 PM	#33
chilledsanity D&A Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	First off, I think "evolve" is the wrong word unless the improvement in gameplay is so black and white obvious there's no debate. I think one problem FF may have is that it has to cater to two crowds. On one side there are the CTF league players who want to hone stuff down to a science and play a game that can really show off their skill and tactics. On the other hand there are people who want the insanity or exotic gamemodes FF has to offer, commonly seen in stuff like AvD, murderball, Hunted, waterpolo, etc. Right now I think FF is more oriented towards the former (league play) since that's where most of the playerbase seems to be. It wants to please everyone, but there can be very differing opinions on what people want. I think what might be the best idea (and would be a bit of a radical jump) is to go for an outright split. Develop an "old school" mode where FF gets designed for league play from the ground up, listening and forming a consensus from the top clans, ignore pubber comments, and design it to be the best league play possible. At the same time, make a "fun mode" where emphasis is on being able to pick up the game easily, have more outrageous gameplay modes, and constantly experiment with new ideas to add to the mix (like jump pads from 2.0 for example). "Old school" mode wouldn't change much, but would rather be slowly refined, "fun mode" would have new changes and features whenever they could be implemented and tested out. The rules would have to be different for both modes and have a clear distinction, but I think it would end up being the best of both worlds.

05-06-2008, 12:57 PM	#34
SoBe Green SoBe Yourself Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Russellville, AR Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The funny part about this would be: TF - Original TF not at all like TFC. TFC - TF remake not at all like TF except for classes. TF2 - Created by the same guys that made TF and TFC. Not at all like TF or TFC except for classes. FF - not at all like TF, more like TFC, not just like TFC. A four year old could tell you that this "TF Recipe" doesn't exist. Every TF game has not been a clone of the past TF game. TF2 is no less a TF game than TFC was. FF is no more a TF game than TFC was. Someone get this imprinted on a bat and I'll beat people until they have some common sense.

05-06-2008, 02:41 PM	#35
bokko when ff will out? D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'm not sure what you mean by 'TF recipe' as that implies some pre-defined formula, this is more of a quesion about staying true to the gameplay seen in TF and TFC. TF, TFC and FF are all very similar - fast paced, full of advanced movement tecniques. TF2 is in its own league with respawn delays, Command Point exclusive gameplay, forcing of people to work together. More can be said, there's no simple way of defining what is in line with the classic TF gameplay and what is not. What is apparent is that TF2 is moving in an entirely new direction that strays off from previous incarnations. Now, what sensible people realise is that should FF ever take the same path as TF2 it would lose its greatness. The classic gameplay would be lost forever and we would see a washed out TF2 clone that pales in comparison and that has no originality.

05-06-2008, 06:29 PM	#38
dys I am the nip to your bud. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Evolve us an entirely new class. Perhaps a robotic female with boob shooting rockets.

05-06-2008, 06:40 PM	#40
dys I am the nip to your bud. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I've actually got time vested into creating this character, watch out. lol But seriously, i always thought it'd be interesting to introduce an entirely new character. Nobody's really done that that I know of.

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