Bunny Hopping (Bhoping)

[o_jackal]

Originally Posted by hughJ

The only bitching phase I can think of about "removing" bhop would have been when some leagues decided to ban it during summer 2001 until 1108 capped it. Other than that though, it's definitely always been possible in TFC since it first came out.

The ban at that point was entirely necessary. Granted yes it was hilarious and fun, but it wasnt very balanced (thats actually a horrible understatement).

[Jiggles]

Oh yes, but it made Warpath fun!

[Circuitous]

It may very well have been that. My memory's fuzzy enough as it is. I wasn't into bhopping at the time, so fuck if I know what happened when.

[o_chancellour]

Originally Posted by Dospac

First there was never a patch that removed bhop in TFC. Clan 404(Defrag, Nadagast, Myself were in 404) beta tested a patch with Valve(we showed Valve bhopping and got them to fix it. Yes fix it as in in TFC right now it is just how Valve intended it to be, implemented purposely) Where was I. We tested a beta patch that was supposed to fix bhop but actually made bhop easier/faster. After that they released the final patch that capped movement as you currently see in TFC.

The moral of the story is Robin Walker knew about bhop from Quake but it hadn't been a problem until stupid DEFRAG brought it to the North American audience and it spilled over to everywhere else. Valve fixed it, and now the FF team is implementing a much more sensible approach to bhop. We hope you'll try it. It sure is fun!

Long time no see fellas,

I was there too. Robin was really cool, he said he saw the bhop craze coming years ago and was pretty surprised it didn't get very widespread sooner if I recall.

The one patch we beta tested where bhopping was accidentally increased was pretty hilarious. They thought they had a pretty good fix worked out and all of a sudden we just kept speeding up exponentially. Was much harder to turn corners though if I recall correctly. I think the most humorous part of that testing session were the other 15 or so "TPF" (TeamPlay First) guys from the PlanetFortress forums who had no idea what bhopping was and were asking the valve devs to kick us out of the beta for hacking. Good times.

Anyways, Robin Walker was a kick ass soldier back then. We played about 2 or 3 hours of 2v2 xover2 before it was released and he could have easily held his own as a D soldier on any of the top clans of that time. That's why I've got such high hopes for TF2 as well as FF, if they let him just do his thing I think there might be quite a few similarities between the two when they're released. He knew his stuff as far as TFC gameplay was concerned, I just always got the impression they had him working on other projects.

Nice to see so many familiar faces around

|404| Chancellour

[o_ghost]

It's cool to know all that stuff about Robin. I often wondered just how much of what was going on with TFC he or any of the other devs knew about what was actually going on at a competitive level.

It's gotta be weird creating a game and having people become as good or better than you at your own game.

[Dospac]

Doug and Erik watched over my shoulder for some 2v2 tournament action we had at the CPL. They also watched the 8v8 games one day. They know their stuff. It was hard to focus on playing and ignore their convo about the gameplay etc. Was funny.

[o_nadagast]

I wouldn't trust Valve to do a good job with TF2... CS:S and DoD:S are absolutely terrible. And DoD on HL1 is actually pretty fun sometimes.

I dunno maybe I'm just too much of a purist to the HL1/Quake1 engine feel. I have noticed that usually mod developers or people who actually play online make much better multiplayer FPSs than big companies. See Warsow and CPMA; I don't understand why big companies have to take out fun features (HL2 and Q3/4 have no bhop really). Although I guess it helps appeal to a bigger audience, it makes the previous audience hate it for mp.

[o_zaskar]

I really wanna know where people get off with that CS:S is terrible cra, there is no hitbox problem, atleast if there was, its gone now. The gameplay feels fine too, i played bolth, dont gimme that "its too easy" crap, thats BS

[o_chancellour]

Originally Posted by Dospac

Doug and Erik watched over my shoulder for some 2v2 tournament action we had at the CPL. They also watched the 8v8 games one day. They know their stuff. It was hard to focus on playing and ignore their convo about the gameplay etc. Was funny.

That's pretty sweet Dos, I never knew you met those guys.

Erik was pretty funny in the playtests, he'd always get frustrated and say they needed to nerf the soldier when decent players would juggle him around.

Nice guy, bad player

[Dospac]

Was neat but a bit nerve wracking as we were actually competing for prizes.(And it wasn't just them over my frickin shoulder..)

Struct and I ended up losing in Round 3 OT of a best of 3 vs .. Brick and Rent? I forget was years ago now, I might have things mixed up. I probably still have the demos from that on a CD somewhere..

I wish I'd had more time to schmooze with them, both were nice guys.

[o_nezumi]

Originally Posted by Zaskar

I really wanna know where people get off with that CS:S is terrible cra, there is no hitbox problem, atleast if there was, its gone now. The gameplay feels fine too, i played bolth, dont gimme that "its too easy" crap, thats BS

This argument has been had on these forums before, Zas. I and almost every other CS player who has ever played competitively hates CS:S. I could give you a huge list of reasons even besides the hitbox problem, but I won't go into it. Fortunately, most people do realize how much better CS is and that's why there are almost exactly 3 times as many players playing CS as CS:S, and more than 3 times as many player minutes per month.
http://steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html

[PHISH]

Originally Posted by Nezumi

This argument has been had on these forums before, Zas. I and almost every other CS player who has ever played competitively hates CS:S. I could give you a huge list of reasons even besides the hitbox problem, but I won't go into it. Fortunately, most people do realize how much better CS is and that's why there are almost exactly 3 times as many players playing CS as CS:S, and more than 3 times as many player minutes per month.
http://steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html

The hitboxes are fine...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...17804374182980

[o_nezumi]

I never said they weren't. Well, maybe. I should have said:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

The hitbox 'problem'

Anyway I'm not talking about hitboxes. I'm talking about a huge list of other problems. Or, to put it more correctly, I'm not talking about a huge list of other problems.

[o_zaskar]

People as a whole HATE change, they resist and fight against it because people hate learning new shit.

CS:S plays a bit diff, the weapons are slightly diff, the oldschool CS guys need to adapt.

Adapt??? Fuck that, they just go back to CS and bitch how CSS sucks.

Its like this for everything, remember all those comp nerds refusing to upgrade to XP pro cause 2000 was soooooo much better?

Ive heard many of those "reasons" most are bullshit, ive even heard the physics as one of the negative effects, really wtf is that shit.


And the CS server amount comparison is kinda lame :P there is gonna be more TFC servers then FF servers for a while :P people like free games (games they have) and many systems cant run source. not to mention all the TFC nerds that arent gonna wanna adapt and learn new shit.

[o_yoda891]

Originally Posted by Zaskar

And the CS server amount comparison is kinda lame :P there is gonna be more TFC servers then FF servers for a while :P people like free games (games they have) and many systems cant run source. not to mention all the TFC nerds that arent gonna wanna adapt and learn new shit.

I highly doubt that. Why: I haven't met a single server owner for tfc that hasn't heard of FF. 50% of them say they plan on creating a server for it or upgrading their server to run FF. You can't really compare CS and TFC, becuase TFC currently, at the time of its "source-ification", doesn't have a large player base. CS often has over 80k players on at once. You can't get 80k players to start playing another game that easily. 800, on the other hand, is quite a bit easier, especially when the game they're switching to is free.

[o_zaskar]

Server owners may make them, but are they Converting their servers or adding?

Because sure, server owners may know, but go into a random TFC pub and ask about FF, most havent heard of it :/ (prob wouldn't of heard of TFC2 if it wasn't on the steam update popup too)

Some gamers are like old men, change = worse.

there could be custom maps that are freeking Awsome, but people will still play the same old shit. They know the layout inside out, and they know the weapon reactions inside out to the point where thats almost as valuable as twitch reflexes. You change any of that and half the skill set they rely on is gone.

You see it ALL the time. A de_dust (or other standard map) server changes to a cool custom map, and at least a handful of the Crazy high score people complain that the map is lame (and their score is noticeably lower too). because different(requires more learning) = lame to many.

[o_qui]

People as a whole HATE change, they resist and fight against it because people hate learning new shit.

Almost how people resist bunnyhopping, saying its "unnatural" and dosnt make sense. Its not what theyre used to, but they have to realise its set in a fantasy setting, a video game.

[o_darknight]

Few words, CS:S feels like trying to run through a vat of gravy.

[o_zaskar]

Yea, running those default maps with high rez and HDR enabled on a box that cant handle it will do that :/ (BTW< only Really high end boxes can run HDR at high rez without that "moving through gravy" feeling)

[o_nezumi]

Zaskar, are you crazy? Of COURSE physics is one of the downsides of CS:S. Not only are the cheap prop_physics in CS:S annoying as hell, but they don't add to gameplay and in fact fuck it up.

A real physics prop (One that doesn't act like 'an unfriendly gas cloud') might be nice but, whoops, CS:S runs a shitty version of the source engine and the real physics props don't work very well anyway. This also means that the ragdolls look like crap compared to other source games.

Even besides that, most people I know HATE older games. They won't touch anything with old looking graphics even if they know for a fact that it would be fun. A LOT of CS players are like that and they STILL won't switch to CS:S.

I think you're overestimating peoples' tendencey to avoid change. And whatever the reason, the majority of players and the VAST majority of clanners have rejected CS:S. You could say that that fact in itself makes CS:S a failure.