ffdev roll call

[vatterin]

You had my hopes up until you said the word "vive". I'm not spending more money on equipment I won't use for a game I would much rather play with a mouse and keyboard. I'll keep tabs on this project but god damn it, why vive?

[trepid_jon]

Originally Posted by vatterin

You had my hopes up until you said the word "vive". I'm not spending more money on equipment I won't use for a game I would much rather play with a mouse and keyboard. I'll keep tabs on this project but god damn it, why vive?

Because that's what I have, so I'm using it.

The game will always be mouse and keyboard friendly, but we'll also add (steam) controller support as well as vive/openvr/oculus/whatever

For now, vive is a great choice because it's amazing, just using it and designing for it is incredible and TF style gameplay seems perfect for it, almost like Valve helped design it with hardcore shooters in mind...

The sniper will be so awesome, and my theory is engineer is perfect for vr. The triggers on the steam controller and the vive are both perfect for something like a charged weapon with full pull fire like engineer railgun and sniper rifle... and this idea I have for the sniper rifle might just be a game changer in terms of what's possible.

You shouldn't fear the vive, it's the taste of the future. It is pricey right now, but within a year all these vr devices will drop the prices down as more and more get made and come out.

Vive is top in my opinion, although I don't own anything else other than oculus dk1 and dk2, and some phone holding headset.

Get excited, I promise the vive/vr beta branch will be tons of fun.

[Bully]

What i'm looking forwards to is conc and rocket jumps in VR, imagine that shit. Minds will be blown, pants will be filled and real life Jimmy legs will follow.

Merry Christmas

[FDA_Approved]

Honestly it's cool that you're that you're excited about working on something. But I'd echo Vat's sentiment that listen to VR talk is pretty gross.

Originally Posted by trepid_jon

Because that's what I have, so I'm using it.

TF style gameplay seems perfect for it, almost like Valve helped design it with hardcore shooters in mind...

This is just some extreme confirmation bias right here. You enjoy it it, so obviously it's perfect. No, let's be real VR meshes with with any first person experience in terms of immersion.

You shouldn't fear the vive, it's the taste of the future.

Yeah but let's be serious, it's never going to be the standard. It's always going to be a niche gimick. I mean it's really cool, don't get me wrong. But it's entirely a gimick. There's so many types of games, and style of play that it offers very little too, or even detracts from. (read third person games, and competitive play respectively.) It'll never be the standard. In fact once it becomes more mainstream, and people get over the thrill of something new, I doubt it will be something many use for more than a few hours a week.

EDIT:

Also, no, concing in VR does not sound awesome, it sounds sickening. VR conc affect, won't blow you're mind it'll blow your guts. As for rocket jumping, sure sounds fun. But just go ask some tf2 players how life changing it's been for them.

[trepid_jon]

Sill a bonified hater. Do your thing, continue to try to bring everyone down with the naysaying. Newsflash, I don't give a shit if you don't like it, I'm still working on it because it's as awesome as I've expressed no matter how much you try to bring us down as if bringing down the devs is A) possible and B) something worth trying to "achieve"

One day when you play it in the Vive or other VR, it'll click like it did with me a few years ago. Now that I have the time and resources for fully independent gamedev, I'm gonna work on it more like before. If you don't like me or any other dev working on it then feel free to never reply to me again with your attempt to dismantle a good thing over and over again. It's pathetic on a variety of levels.

Seriously, let's hear your grand plan for FF. Keep maintaining and old PC-only game, never venture beyond mouse and keyboard even when the future is right now?

"confirmation bias" and "gross" -- what other cliche buzzword horseshit you wanna keep spewing?

If an idea of "FF2" bothers you, one that by default from being on Steam and being released in the future and developed right now means supporting steam universe if done right aka big picture and VR modes... if that bothers you then seriously, don't bother hating on it within these forums and specifically this thread on our FF forums about the next iteration of FF. You've repeatedly done this since the thread was started and I'm officially done with that now, since you can't seem to grasp it even after what happened before.

People hating on the Vive on the forums of a Team Fortress inspired SourceMod open source and available for free on Steam...if FF doesn't have more Steam Universe support that's a failure on us devs' part, but not really failure since we just do this in our free time. It's a gradual process until we build enough momentum to start full development on this sequel of sorts.

Anyways, merry Christmas ya anti-jolly animal

[FDA_Approved]

Little over board there Jon. These are like, just my opinions man.

But no seriously, that's my opinion of VR. And I mean, it's not like I'm saying it isn't cool. I really do want to play some VR games, I'd love to play elite dangerous in VR, or some exploration games. I'm sure it's a breath taking experience. But then I'll take it off and go back to playing games without it.

I'm not saying it's niche because it's not good enough, it's just by default niche. What does VR really have to offer to games that aren't first person? Maybe it can make the experience slightly more cinematic? Nothing big though really.

2D fighting games, RTS games, third person rpgs/shooters. What does VR have to offer for Owlboy, rocket league, or kerbal space program? That's a wide array of games VR doesn't cover.

It's real place is in first person experiences. And when it comes to shooters, you'll never see it used competitively. Not unless it's a vr only game. But you'll never see a CSGO tournament, or the like, where everyone is hooked up to VR.

And that's not to say there isn't room for casual VR use in shooters. Even still I really don't think it's going to be anyones main play style. Perhaps they'll use it here and there, but I don't see anyone who's going to play multiple hours a day use it all the time.

Anyways what's my grand plan?

I'd rebrand entirely. At the very least drop the "Forever". FF had a rocky past, and the only people who like the "forever" brand are the 45-75 of us who still play. Rebrand the game, rebrand the classes. Don't name you're main offensive DM class the "medic". Don't name your weakest class something that might lead others to believe he's a DM power house based on other games.

Bring all the assets up to date obviously.

The game really needs a new objective game mode. Something that, you know, has an objective, but still puts a strong emphasis on movement and DM. CTF is great, but it's flawed in many ways, and it's not beginner friendly. Imo the mode needs to be a mirrored objective (both teams working towards the same goal, like warpath both teams do the same thing). That keeps it balanced and gives both teams a full selection of viable classes. (as opposed to some classes only being good at O and D, a mirrored mode lets both teams play O and D at the same time sort of, making all classes useful)

Add all that new shit kids like these days, skins, matchmaking, stats, achievements.

And then the real key is to say nothing till about 2 weeks or so before release and you do your PR push. So rather than letting people watch the struggles of development (that's not a personal bash, all development cycles are a struggle buss, I don't care if you think you're a god, there will be set backs, delays, disappointments to over come) and spreading out all your potential hype over how ever many years, where people may come, check it out, leave, forget or lose interest. Instead you get a release where everyone get's to check out the finished product on the same footing at the same time.

You'll get a much bigger initial boom. And some of those players won't like it and leave. But instead of having them figure that out before it's even released, you get to have them figure that out while adding to the player count for the people who do like it and want to stay. And that player count is going to help bring in new players who also might stay or leave.

I fully believe the biggest reason for DOA game releases these days is the whole 1-2 years of open beta. Stretches the hype train too thin, runs its course by the time it's released.

And in all that development time you can do what ever you want. Adjust classes and balance, add new things. Put in VR. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's actually a very smart business move. A solid FPS with VR support will bring in a certain crowd. It just won't make the game.

I'm not trying to shit on your parade. I'm all for a new fortress, and the last thing I want is to see you to continue supporting FF when it's not going any where. The only thing that could bring FF back would basically require making it a new game anyways.

I'm just trying to be realistic, and those are my opinions on the matter.

[trepid_jon]

Fair enough and to be honest those are valid concerns. VR is close to mainstream, this is all new and open to whatever we want to do.

For example, most games don't seem to do any finger based button movement relying instead on telporting. I think that's garbags, because VR will never be mainstream over more classical game input like controllers and keyboard+mouse without being able to basically use the (vibe or whatever) controllers.

I've done tests and enjoy it when it's more like you're a passenger in a vehicle.

I dunno, it's all being made up as we go and I can tell you from my own experience with it certain aspects are already perfect for FF like the weapons.

Movement with the thumbs will be an interesting challenge, but I think it'll be good.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved

Also, no, concing in VR does not sound awesome, it sounds sickening. VR conc affect, won't blow you're mind it'll blow your guts.

Originally Posted by trepid_jon

Sill a bonified hater. Do your thing, continue to try to bring everyone down with the naysaying.

Actually, Jon, he's got a valid point here. VR isn't for everyone. While I've no experience with it, I can easily see it being a really bad idea for someone who gets motion sickness. My wife(though not an FPS gamer) suffers from it. Fortunately, I don't.

I think VR is a step towards something even better, though. Something akin to the "Holodeck" from Star Trek. THAT will be where the really awesome shit is, but unfortunately, that would leave behind people like me(the physically disabled).

[trepid_jon]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Actually, Jon, he's got a valid point here. VR isn't for everyone. While I've no experience with it, I can easily see it being a really bad idea for someone who gets motion sickness. My wife(though not an FPS gamer) suffers from it. Fortunately, I don't.

I think VR is a step towards something even better, though. Something akin to the "Holodeck" from Star Trek. THAT will be where the really awesome shit is, but unfortunately, that would leave behind people like me(the physically disabled).

I don't think it'll leave anyone behind. In fact, I think things like the Vive that essentially add more I/O, more precision, make it possible to leave the limitations of 2D monitors with mouse+keyboard... I think it'll enable a lot of people with or without disabilities to play in different ways.

Not just Vive but things like the leap motion and touch screens/pads.

All of the advancements we've had since 2004, how could they enhance something like Fortress Forever? I think it's too many ways to even think about currently.

As an example though with the Vive specifically, you're not required to play things standing up walking around, and the quality devs keep this in mind allowing you to essentially play with enhanced input, the helmets are optional, the controllers are optional... subnautica for instance, it doesn't even have motion tracked controller support yet so with the Vive you play with a helmet or classic monitor and a controller or mouse+keyboard.

Like FF's own nugzilla, his back has made his mobility is limited and sitting at a computer desk forced to look here and be positioned like this...that goes away with the vive, as in someone could comfortably play a proper VR game from a hospital bed, that kind of thing. The vive and other good vr is simply enhanced optional I/O if done right, each piece being part of a modular system, just as PC gaming already is with people already playing in infinite ways.

What I envision for FF vive/vr support is just that, support. Beyond simply supporting these new devices, then we could design this with them in mind.

Playing as an engineer with the vive seems perfect. Sniping seems perfect.

Getting the movement for stuff like conc and strafe jumping...that'll be an interesting challenge and one worth getting right.

If we pull this off we'll have a game nobody else has, and it'll be free open source haha, it's exciting.

The things brought up are good, and really despite my seemingly rude attitude regarding it because in the end I truly belive it's not a debate and my history with FF dev has taught me not to get caught up in back and forth stuff especially regarding future tech and whatnot... thinking of all these things and planning for them, tackling them the right way... it'll only be good for FF if we pull it off.

Standing around protecting a sentry, railgunning folks, repairing....I'm telling you engineer seems like it was made for vive already haha

Designing and developing vive for FF weapons and gameplay seems like it'll be tons of fun, as a gamemaker it will be like a dream, and not just with FF although I think something like FF provides a lot of great opportunity, but not just for vive nor just future FF, other nextgen games and all tech in general. A properly made and maintained FF would mean as many platforms and as much I/O as possible, play any way you want.

I'm excited for the future of gaming and what we get to do...yall, it's gonna be so much fun, and most people don't even know what's coming haha

[Lynus]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one and they all stink...

...except mine.

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VR could be cool.

I'll let Mr Day and his team conjure up some more cool shit before I rush judgement like a confused scrode!

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by trepid_jon

I don't think it'll leave anyone behind. In fact, I think things like the Vive that essentially add more I/O, more precision, make it possible to leave the limitations of 2D monitors with mouse+keyboard... I think it'll enable a lot of people with or without disabilities to play in different ways.

I was referring to the Holodeck idea when I was talking about the disabilities bit.

Actually, reading through some of the new posts, I had an idea hit me.....

Fortress Forever: GO!

As in, you can move around in the real world, and interact with other players nearby. The game would "overlay" graphics where necessary through your phone/tablet/etc. If enough people were playing, it could be interesting.

Kinda like the Pokémon GO! game, and some of the other ones that are coming out set in the "real world". I don't know if anyone has ever tried making a FPS game in that way.

[trepid_jon]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I was referring to the Holodeck idea when I was talking about the disabilities bit.

Actually, reading through some of the new posts, I had an idea hit me.....

Fortress Forever: GO!

As in, you can move around in the real world, and interact with other players nearby. The game would "overlay" graphics where necessary through your phone/tablet/etc. If enough people were playing, it could be interesting.

Kinda like the Pokémon GO! game, and some of the other ones that are coming out set in the "real world". I don't know if anyone has ever tried making a FPS game in that way.

Oh man, we can do anything we want, and it's slowly setting in for more and more devs and players... as they hear the horn things could get wild.

A "GO!" idea or whatetever isn't as crazy as it seems, in fact it could be done in a cool way if done right and I think we could do something like that in some capacity. Personally, from slipping into the app trap for years, I know exactly how to do it... I've been known to make an app or two.

YouTube

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*edit*

Other newcomers on the team, nugzilla and valued_rug, also worked on those games as well as other team members, past future present all that.

It's about realizing what we have in front of us, how special it is and what we can do with it. We're lucky to have gotten FF this far and we're also lucky to be in the position we are to continue development in such an efficient fashion. I'm excited, get excited y'all haha

[ncc360]

Hey, just stumbled upon this thread and I'm surprised it still has activity! Have there been any developments on the port? Heard that it was a possibility to go to Unreal or Source 2 (or latest available Source). I heard the port failed but seeing this thread having activity gives me hope!