Pyro missing shotgun

[KevinL]

As a guy who just started playing the game but played some TFC before, I'd also like the Pyro to have its shotgun back. To solve the problem of players misuing it as soon as possible, I think that it could use the Half-Life 2 pistol sound that comes in the files installed with the game (specifically pistol_fire2.wav) that always sounded pathetically weak and that the gun should be renamed the "Pellet Gun" on HUD elements with a possibly hint coming up explaining its general weakness and greater effectiveness at range when selected.

Also while trying out sounds to use with the gun I discovered that there is a bug where the shotgun uses the super shotgun pump sound and vice versa.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by KevinL

As a guy who just started playing the game but played some TFC before, I'd also like the Pyro to have its shotgun back. To solve the problem of players misuing it as soon as possible, I think that it could use the Half-Life 2 pistol sound that comes in the files installed with the game (specifically pistol_fire2.wav) that always sounded pathetically weak and that the gun should be renamed the "Pellet Gun" on HUD elements with a possibly hint coming up explaining its general weakness and greater effectiveness at range when selected.

Also while trying out sounds to use with the gun I discovered that there is a bug where the shotgun uses the super shotgun pump sound and vice versa.

That sound is pretty fitting, thanks for pointing it out.

The super shotgun and shotgun cock sounds actually used to be switched, but that got fixed without switching the actual sound files. The current sounds are the correct ones, even though they have the wrong file names. Confusing? Yes.

[KevinL]

Huh, I feel that the shotgun sounds fit better switched around, the regular shotgun sound has this "machined-parts fitting together" feel that feels more relevant to the SPAS-12 than the other way around.

Also I wanted to mention the other pistol sound is better for me personally but only if it's converted to mono, it has more of a bang but in stereo the right audio channel is pretty quiet.

Edit: After trying out the other pistol sound converted to mono, it has a bit too much of a bang so the sound level between the two sides needs to be re-balanced for it to be weaker in mono.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by KevinL

Huh, I feel that the shotgun sounds fit better switched around, the regular shotgun sound has this "machined-parts fitting together" feel that feels more relevant to the SPAS-12 than the other way around.

Also I wanted to mention the other pistol sound is better for me personally but only if it's converted to mono, it has more of a bang but in stereo the right audio channel is pretty quiet.

I quite like pistol_fire2. I posted a bit more about it on the relevant Github issue.

About the shotgun cock sounds: I had it wrong. They were intentionally switched to the way they are now, even though they are using the 'wrong' sounds. From a thread on the dev forums from 2011:

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Actually, the single shotty sounds a bit better in that regard. I might try switching them.

[KevinL]

Yeah, I was just thinking that re-using HL2 sounds might make people think that you guys were being lazy on the mod.

Also, if the gun does get renamed, it will be weird for the Super Shotgun to still be called the "Super" Shotgun when there isn't a regular one, but it might not really matter.

[WiFiDi]

if you used HL2 sounds i think you guys should heavily edit it so that its not easily reconizeable as a hl2 sound. it would give off that the sound is a palce holder and people may have trouble getting used to the idea fo a shotgun making the beloved hl2 pistol noise. tbh i don't like the sound it annoys me but that is just me.

[KevinL]

Two other weak-sounding firing sounds I found already in the game that could be used:

sg_fire2: The weakest sounding of the sentry shots in my opinion. I think it sounds just weak enough without having to resort to a "piff-paff" noise like the HL2 pistol. The sentry has two other sounds so if the team wants to avoid re-using assets it could be edited out of the sentry's sound list.

nail_shoot1: The nail shooting sound of the removed nail grenade. Very, VERY weak-sounding, the gun might as well be a BB gun. The impact sounds are louder than the shot. It's the worse of piff-paff.

[XPelargos]

Originally Posted by squeek.

There's no winning here (as with absolutely everything in FF), but I think reducing new player confusion is a worthy goal, and that's why the single shotgun was removed. The role being emphasized is just a side benefit.

EDIT: I really suggest everyone watch that video I linked above, it's really eye-opening. He goes from class to class and uses the single shotgun on almost all of them for almost two hours and never gets a clue. He might be an exceptional outlier, but it seems silly to keep the single shotgun if there's the potential for new players to get such an inaccurate view of the gameplay.

EDIT#2: Created an issue about the model being confusing: https://github.com/fortressforever/f...ver/issues/149. If that gets implemented, I'd have no problem adding it back to the pyro.

Wow, that video really IS eye opening.

You made a good point above, which I agree with, namely that almost all FPS players assume shotguns are good and pack a punch. The single shotty has always been worse than a peashooter and the only reason I'm "cool" with it is because I'm used to the Quake 1 shotgun dichotomy. (Which the QWTF shotgun is based on.)

I like the discussion now, and why not take it a step further? I think a pistol would really fit the single shotgun's spot more. 8 clip pistol with same damage and same sound as the single shotty might clear up any confusion newbies have about the weapon's power. THoughts?

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by XPelargos

I like the discussion now, and why not take it a step further? I think a pistol would really fit the single shotgun's spot more. 8 clip pistol with same damage and same sound as the single shotty might clear up any confusion newbies have about the weapon's power. THoughts?

That's exactly what this issue is about, but creating an entirely new weapon model is much more difficult than swapping out the sound and name. A pistol would be nice, but, at least for now, simply changing the sound + name might be our best bet.

[XPelargos]

I wouldn't mind using the HL2 pistol, but people have voiced concerns about it appearing "lazy" and such. Who made the models for the orignal single shotty?

[Nothing]

I personally don't agree with issues surrounding the single shotgun, but it's not my place to decide the best direction of the mod. I miss using it for the Pyro and Medic, and I just hope I can see it again for these classes, or get a suitable replacement rather than have it fall into oblivion.

Funny how a peashooter seems to have a bit of an impact when it actually goes missing.

[KubeDawg]

Yeah I feel like either make a really short range somewhat powerful shotgun, or a longer range pea shooter pistol. Sniper could use a pistol as well instead of the nailgun.

[KevinL]

I found a video of a pistol that can be loaded one by one, might be useful for a new model:

YouTube

YouTube

[Iggy]

Just make it a .22, and have someone with a high pitched voice record "PEW PEW PEW" for the sound.

[Bully]

YouTube

YouTube