some mapping questions - Page 2

Jay Mofo Mills · 07-03-2012, 08:53 PM

As a side note in reference to creating tunnels/archways

One extremely annoying problem with subdividing to create your arches/tunnels is that little invisible edges will clip the player. Prob not a huge issue if its a roof but its really annoying to conc along the edge of a rounded wall and hit invisible edges because of subdividing. You can also get stuck just running along them.

I would recommend using the arch tool whenever possible because a.) it always puts your vertexes on the grid and b.) you dont get those little annoying invisible corners.

Unless of course you have extremely crazy shapes you need to subdivide for, or they're not in a high travel area.

**Crazycarl** · 07-03-2012, 11:47 PM

That's why we have playerclip brushes. You can also make displacements non-solid to players.

**squeek.** · 07-03-2012, 11:55 PM

I'm fond of using world brushes textured with invisible (for smooth/consistent collisions) coupled with non-solid displacements (for cool aesthetics). I tried to do that in the ff_myth yard but didn't do it properly, so it's still pretty buggy in some areas (I left some displacements solid I think, so you sometimes get stuck while rampsliding, etc). The ff_myth ramp room uses that method as well, though, and it works well.

**Elmo** · 07-04-2012, 12:39 PM

I haven't noticed any problems with subdividing and getting stuck.. So long as edges meet generally 1 to 1 or at Npower2 to 1 then so long as it's sewn I dont have any problems.

Snipe · 10-02-2012, 06:25 PM

time to dust off this old topic with some new questions...

So, I am sitting here at work and something dawns on me... hitting Ctrl+B snaps the selection to the grid right? well, does this work in vertex edit mode? Like if i were to have some vertices selected and i hit Ctrl+B would it snap them to the grid also??? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE PUT MY MIND AT REST. I can't wait all day to get home to know the answer. must know now.

quick somebody just open hammer or somethin and try this out. please.

Gamingmaster000 · 10-03-2012, 02:02 PM

Holy shit, I can't even make complex shape like curves and even circles. How you do that?

Snipe · 10-03-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamingmaster000

Holy shit, I can't even make complex shape like curves and even circles. How you do that?

lots of patience. that long curved tunnel earlier in the thread was a huge pain to make. you can make arches and curves, but there is no tool to make a curved arch (i hope that makes sense cause i just confused myself there for a min). so basically, I made an arch, copied it, turned the copy slightly and lined it up, cut a slice off one end so the brushes werent intersecting, copied again and repeated the pattern till i got a slow 90 degree turn in an arched tunnel (btw, if there is an easier way to do this, someone shed some light on it for me).

sounds harsh, but only took me about 5 mins. texturing it took the longest lol.

And i tested the vertex thing i was askin about yesterday. Does not work in vertex edit mode

dammit. of course... anything that would make my time using hammer easier is a no go. stupid hammer...

Snipe · 10-04-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snipe

lots of patience. that long curved tunnel earlier in the thread was a huge pain to make. you can make arches and curves, but there is no tool to make a curved arch (i hope that makes sense cause i just confused myself there for a min). so basically, I made an arch, copied it, turned the copy slightly and lined it up, cut a slice off one end so the brushes werent intersecting, copied again and repeated the pattern till i got a slow 90 degree turn in an arched tunnel (btw, if there is an easier way to do this, someone shed some light on it for me).

sounds harsh, but only took me about 5 mins. texturing it took the longest lol.

And i tested the vertex thing i was askin about yesterday. Does not work in vertex edit mode

dammit. of course... anything that would make my time using hammer easier is a no go. stupid hammer...

I HATE YOU TORUS TOOL. WHY DID YOU HIDE FROM ME ALL THIS TIME...

so pissed...

Snipe · 10-09-2012, 05:31 PM

Ok, so I am confused as hell (what else is new). I was reading through this page and specifically this in particular...

Maps, architecture and prop models use a scale of 1 foot = 16 units.
Skyboxes (which are 1/16th scale of ordinary maps) use 1 foot = 1 unit.
Human Character models for Source Engine currently use 1 foot = 12 units.

What? so lemmie get this straight...The actual grid in hammer is 1 unit = 1 inch? If so, why is the scale for models different? And if the skybox is 1 foot = 1 unit, wouldnt that be 1/12th scale? not 1/16th??? I am starting to wonder if I should give up on hammer and its confusing ways. It is becoming a pain in the ass...

**squeek.** · 10-09-2012, 11:25 PM

No, all map stuff (brushes, props, etc) uses 1 foot = 16 units (except 3d skyboxes, which use 1 foot = 1 unit, or 1/16th scale). You don't have to worry about the character model scaling (though it is weird that it uses a different scale).

This is the important part:

Code:

Map Grid    Imperial    Metric

     1  =   0.75"   =   0.01905 
     2  =   1.5"    =   0.04
     4  =   3"      =   0.08
     8  =   6"      =   0.15 
    16  =   1'      =   0.3

Snipe · 10-10-2012, 01:03 PM

Thank you squeek. Although it still doesnt make sense as to why the player models are different... If I add a static prop of an FF pyro or any other class, the height is like 72 or something like that. Which according to valve, would make him 4 ft tall. lol we got a bunch of midgets with guns.

**squeek.** · 10-10-2012, 08:17 PM

Snipe · 10-10-2012, 09:13 PM

lol squeek. so I am going to just disregard valves dimensions. to hell with em. cause if i make a 96 unit tall doorway (which would be, according to valve, 6 ft), while playing in game it would be about 8 ft tall compared to the player... that does not make any sense to me at all. and if I were to make a ledge or something "eye-level" at (once again if you do the math according to 16 units = 1 ft that valve says) around 80 units (which would be around 5 ft in the "world"), it would be taller than the players themselves. BUT valve says eye level is 64 units high... in the "world" itself. but yet thats only 4 ft according to them.

THEY ARE IDIOTS OR THEY WERE STONED WHEN THEY CAME UP WITH THIS SHIT. and i am thinking they were idiots. cause (i know...) when you are stoned, you dont have an idiot moment as bad as that.

where the hell is ricey when i need him. hes jewish, hes gotta be good with numbers...

**Crazycarl** · 10-12-2012, 12:09 PM

A unit is a unit is a unit. Valve didn't write the wiki, so don't take anything on there as absolute truth. Whoever come up with the idea that 16 units = 1 foot is an idiot, imo. A more accurate explanation would be that in a FPS, you want to build interiors a bit larger than in real life so that things don't seem claustrophobic.

You'll be better off not trying to convert them to feet and inches, but to learn what dimensions are appropriate for different objects. Check out the orange "measure" textures that show standard sizes for doors, walls, crates, etc. For anything you're not sure of, test the map to see what looks right.

Snipe · 10-12-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

A unit is a unit is a unit. Valve didn't write the wiki, so don't take anything on there as absolute truth. Whoever come up with the idea that 16 units = 1 foot is an idiot, imo. A more accurate explanation would be that in a FPS, you want to build interiors a bit larger than in real life so that things don't seem claustrophobic.

You'll be better off not trying to convert them to feet and inches, but to learn what dimensions are appropriate for different objects. Check out the orange "measure" textures that show standard sizes for doors, walls, crates, etc. For anything you're not sure of, test the map to see what looks right.

That is what I have been doing and it is good. I was just trying to make a more "technical, realistic" map. I am trying to push my mapping skills right now because I know I am nowhere near on par with 99% of the other mappers on here. I guess I am doing somewhat of an experiment for Ricey's map battle. I havent even figured it out yet though lol.

07-03-2012, 08:53 PM	#21
Jay Mofo Mills Jay\|mOfO\|Mills Beta Tester Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Santa Fe, NM Gametype: Snag the flag beotches Posts Rated Helpful 8 Times	creating tunnels/archways (CYLINDERS VS. SUBDIVIDE) As a side note in reference to creating tunnels/archways One extremely annoying problem with subdividing to create your arches/tunnels is that little invisible edges will clip the player. Prob not a huge issue if its a roof but its really annoying to conc along the edge of a rounded wall and hit invisible edges because of subdividing. You can also get stuck just running along them. I would recommend using the arch tool whenever possible because a.) it always puts your vertexes on the grid and b.) you dont get those little annoying invisible corners. Unless of course you have extremely crazy shapes you need to subdivide for, or they're not in a high travel area.

07-03-2012, 11:47 PM	#22
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	That's why we have playerclip brushes. You can also make displacements non-solid to players. __________________ Support FF:

07-03-2012, 11:55 PM	#23
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	I'm fond of using world brushes textured with invisible (for smooth/consistent collisions) coupled with non-solid displacements (for cool aesthetics). I tried to do that in the ff_myth yard but didn't do it properly, so it's still pretty buggy in some areas (I left some displacements solid I think, so you sometimes get stuck while rampsliding, etc). The ff_myth ramp room uses that method as well, though, and it works well. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 07-03-2012 at 11:55 PM.

07-04-2012, 12:39 PM	#24
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	I haven't noticed any problems with subdividing and getting stuck.. So long as edges meet generally 1 to 1 or at Npower2 to 1 then so long as it's sewn I dont have any problems. __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 07-04-2012 at 12:39 PM.

10-09-2012, 11:25 PM	#30
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	No, all map stuff (brushes, props, etc) uses 1 foot = 16 units (except 3d skyboxes, which use 1 foot = 1 unit, or 1/16th scale). You don't have to worry about the character model scaling (though it is weird that it uses a different scale). This is the important part: Code: Map Grid Imperial Metric 1 = 0.75" = 0.01905 2 = 1.5" = 0.04 4 = 3" = 0.08 8 = 6" = 0.15 16 = 1' = 0.3 __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington

10-02-2012, 06:25 PM	#25
Snipe WhenGasGrenWillBack? Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maryland Class/Position: Sniper, Spy Gametype: Spy Deathmatch Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	time to dust off this old topic with some new questions... So, I am sitting here at work and something dawns on me... hitting Ctrl+B snaps the selection to the grid right? well, does this work in vertex edit mode? Like if i were to have some vertices selected and i hit Ctrl+B would it snap them to the grid also??? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE PUT MY MIND AT REST. I can't wait all day to get home to know the answer. must know now. quick somebody just open hammer or somethin and try this out. please.

10-03-2012, 02:02 PM	#26
Gamingmaster000 Banned Join Date: Sep 2012 Gametype: CTF Affiliations: Dalokohs & Sandvich,I'm 12 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Holy shit, I can't even make complex shape like curves and even circles. How you do that?

10-09-2012, 05:31 PM	#29
Snipe WhenGasGrenWillBack? Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maryland Class/Position: Sniper, Spy Gametype: Spy Deathmatch Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Ok, so I am confused as hell (what else is new). I was reading through this page and specifically this in particular... Maps, architecture and prop models use a scale of 1 foot = 16 units. Skyboxes (which are 1/16th scale of ordinary maps) use 1 foot = 1 unit. Human Character models for Source Engine currently use 1 foot = 12 units. What? so lemmie get this straight...The actual grid in hammer is 1 unit = 1 inch? If so, why is the scale for models different? And if the skybox is 1 foot = 1 unit, wouldnt that be 1/12th scale? not 1/16th??? I am starting to wonder if I should give up on hammer and its confusing ways. It is becoming a pain in the ass...

10-10-2012, 01:03 PM	#31
Snipe WhenGasGrenWillBack? Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maryland Class/Position: Sniper, Spy Gametype: Spy Deathmatch Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Thank you squeek. Although it still doesnt make sense as to why the player models are different... If I add a static prop of an FF pyro or any other class, the height is like 72 or something like that. Which according to valve, would make him 4 ft tall. lol we got a bunch of midgets with guns.

10-10-2012, 08:17 PM	#32
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	__________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 10-10-2012 at 08:20 PM.
	1 members found this post helpful.

10-10-2012, 09:13 PM	#33
Snipe WhenGasGrenWillBack? Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maryland Class/Position: Sniper, Spy Gametype: Spy Deathmatch Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	lol squeek. so I am going to just disregard valves dimensions. to hell with em. cause if i make a 96 unit tall doorway (which would be, according to valve, 6 ft), while playing in game it would be about 8 ft tall compared to the player... that does not make any sense to me at all. and if I were to make a ledge or something "eye-level" at (once again if you do the math according to 16 units = 1 ft that valve says) around 80 units (which would be around 5 ft in the "world"), it would be taller than the players themselves. BUT valve says eye level is 64 units high... in the "world" itself. but yet thats only 4 ft according to them. THEY ARE IDIOTS OR THEY WERE STONED WHEN THEY CAME UP WITH THIS SHIT. and i am thinking they were idiots. cause (i know...) when you are stoned, you dont have an idiot moment as bad as that. where the hell is ricey when i need him. hes jewish, hes gotta be good with numbers... Last edited by Snipe; 10-10-2012 at 09:18 PM.

10-12-2012, 12:09 PM	#34
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	A unit is a unit is a unit. Valve didn't write the wiki, so don't take anything on there as absolute truth. Whoever come up with the idea that 16 units = 1 foot is an idiot, imo. A more accurate explanation would be that in a FPS, you want to build interiors a bit larger than in real life so that things don't seem claustrophobic. You'll be better off not trying to convert them to feet and inches, but to learn what dimensions are appropriate for different objects. Check out the orange "measure" textures that show standard sizes for doors, walls, crates, etc. For anything you're not sure of, test the map to see what looks right. __________________ Support FF:
	1 members found this post helpful.

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