are we ever

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Dumbest analogy ever, really. You made it assuming. yet again, that people have a problem with Old Timers having rules and being able to enforce them, when in reality, it's how dumb the rules are that bothers people. It's perfectly and intuitively understandable why a mall would have rules to prevent vandalism, but it makes no sense why someone would have a super-strict family-friendly environment in a violent video game full of, for the most part, (young) adults, who for the most part don't give two shits about the values upheld in such a server. It's about expectations.

Even you admitted that it's their right to have their rules, and that violation of said rules should lead to bans. If you have a problem with their rules, don't play there! Pretty fucking simple. You like to argue just to argue.

[unbankthx]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I went where you refuse to see... Also, what was said(if you had actually READ the information posted, you'd know this) was that 3% of those who have played on OT servers were banned.

Um. No you didn't. I already acknowledged that OT had the right to ban whoever they want for whatever reason they want, and I also realize a lot of people are cunts about it.

That fact has absolutely nothing to with the fact that OT acolytes come on here and spam that 'only 3% of the FF population is banned at our servers'.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Facts are facts, despite if you believe them or not. The sky is blue... yet someone could easily say the sky is orange.

'Facts' are facts, yes, but when you skew or cloud facts with superfluous data points, and try and pass it off as empirically correct, then no, they are not facts. They are deception. Sure, someone can say the sky is orange, that doesn't make them right. The sky is objectively colored blue. When you deal with statistics, the methodology you use to come up with your data must be transparent and honest, or there's no weight in the statistic.

Originally Posted by Iggy

So, to not create yet another wall of text, let me ask you this: Why are you focusing on OT's ban list, and not the shitty behavior of the playerbase? To toss you another analogy; If you walk into a mall and start busting out store windows.... you're going to get thrown out(if your lucky), or maybe arrested. Does that make it the malls fault? Of course not. Quit blaming servers and their rules for the behavior of individuals. It's not going to help the state of the game.

Derp. The reason why I'm focusing on their banlist is because Drizzle brought up the point that only 3% off FF players are banned at OT in the first place. If he never said that, this debate wouldn't be happening. I love how you're trying to shovel blame onto me, as if I started this debate. It's a clear indication of your own cognitive bias towards anyone who questions OT.

In other words, you attempt to try and 'get' me on the idea that OT can do what they want with their servers is nothing more than a misdirection, or a strawman. I already admit they can do what they want, but the fact is that Drizzle brought up a questionable 'fact' and presented it as a way to shine light on how moral and upstanding OT is.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Even you admitted that it's their right to have their rules, and that violation of said rules should lead to bans. If you have a problem with their rules, don't play there! Pretty fucking simple. You like to argue just to argue.

Yes, dumb fuck, but that's not the problem I have with the Old Timers. It's that their rules, no matter how much I acknowledge their right to enforce them, are fucking stupid and drive away players from this game, because no one wants to play a violent mature video game with a bunch of family-friendly pussies who have paper-thin feelings.

[Iggy]

I quoted the whole post, so you could read it again. Putting in accents where needed:

Originally Posted by Gwarsbane

There goes people bashing OT again because they have rules that they enforce so that THEY and others that like those rules can enjoy themselves.

And ohhhhhh 3% of the peoples that have played on their servers are banned, Oh no the world is ending.... Course that is over what 6 or 7 different servers, from when ever the first OT servers were first brought on line at least 5 to 6 years or more ago. (I'm sure its longer then 6, i just can't remember).

And if someone causes trouble on one of their servers they have every right to ban them from ALL their servers. I've seen idiots in the past go from server to server over different games for one group causing problems on every one of the servers. I used to do the exact same thing as OT and ban idiots from all the servers I used to admin. It never hurt the community, in fact it helped the community because it got rid of the trouble makers.

You guys keep blaming ONE server for the problems of the community. Ever consider that its all the other servers that don't have any rules thats driving away the community?

No of course not. Because its much easier to blame a server you were banned from because you broke their rules many many times.

I don't even know why I bother posting here anymore. The admins won't get rid of the trolls who will course jump on this post and call me names.

Though they could actually surprise me and keep their mouths shut, but I doubt that will happen, they will just come up with more lies.

[Etzell]

Originally Posted by Etzell

I'm sick to death of the 3% BANS LOL quote floating around.
Maybe that's true across all games... But I'd like to see the banlist filtered JUST for FF bans. It's clearly not at the present.

If it's not more than 3%, I'll retract this post, but I'll also be shocked.

COUGH. Quit stating the figure until you have an accurate comparison, for Christ's sake.

[GambiT]

Originally Posted by moosh

If a new player gets banned from one of the 3 active servers, do you think he still plays?

if a person sent to this website to check out this game checked out the fucking BS going on on this forum do you think he would DL the game or say fuck it?

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yes, dumb fuck, but that's not the problem I have with the Old Timers. It's that their rules, no matter how much I acknowledge their right to enforce them, are fucking stupid and drive away players from this game, because no one wants to play a violent mature video game with a bunch of family-friendly pussies who have paper-thin feelings.

oh, you speak for everybody?? when did this happen?? cus personally i enjoy a family friendly server a whole lot more than any other.

maybe if you weren't such a fucking tit and followed their rules you wouldnt "hurt" their feelings and get your ass banned?

Originally Posted by unbankthx

That fact has absolutely nothing to with the fact that OT acolytes come on here and spam that 'only 3% of the FF population is banned at our servers'.



'Facts' are facts, yes, but when you skew or cloud facts with superfluous data points, and try and pass it off as empirically correct, then no, they are not facts. They are deception. Sure, someone can say the sky is orange, that doesn't make them right. The sky is objectively colored blue. When you deal with statistics, the methodology you use to come up with your data must be transparent and honest, or there's no weight in the statistic.



Derp. The reason why I'm focusing on their banlist is because Drizzle brought up the point that only 3% off FF players are banned at OT in the first place. If he never said that, this debate wouldn't be happening. I love how you're trying to shovel blame onto me, as if I started this debate. It's a clear indication of your own cognitive bias towards anyone who questions OT.

In other words, you attempt to try and 'get' me on the idea that OT can do what they want with their servers is nothing more than a misdirection, or a strawman. I already admit they can do what they want, but the fact is that Drizzle brought up a questionable 'fact' and presented it as a way to shine light on how moral and upstanding OT is.

if all of you weren't so hell bent on ragging OT maybe they would'nt feel the need to defend themselves?

me personally, i think it is YOU and all the other cry baby bitches on here that are draggin this game down. wah wah you got banned, learn to abey the fucking rules or get over it.

glad i can go on OT's server and not have to deal with a bunch of whinny bitches like y'all while i enjoy this game!

Originally Posted by traxamillion

Scuzzy/Old Timers server has ruined this game. How can you establish a player base when new players are insta-banned for saying or doing something that harms no one or nothing. should start a petition to get the server taken down. banning 95% of the people that join your server is a joke.

from my experience every person i've seen banned on OT's server deserved it, and would have gotten the same on my server.

if they are to ignorant to come in and enjoy the game without the racism and cursing non stop and spawn spamming then they don't deserve to be there, IMO.

Originally Posted by Lynus

its because the person that owns Ol Timers, was kicked off the dev team for sucking.

Now all he can do is ruin the game. He's doing a great job.

thats YOUR opinion, in MY opinion OT is helping the game by providing a safe haven from the ppl who want to come in a purposely ruin the game for everybody else.

i'm drunk and this is prob gonna piss all you whinny tit's off but i don't give a fuck, i'm sick of seeing this shit on the forum.

we get it, you don't like OT, fucking good for you, this forum is NOT for bashing ANY servers just because you want to fucking cry. who the fuck would try out this game after seeing all of this constant bitching splattered all over the damn forum???

get over it!

[Iggy]

GO GAMBIT GO!!!

[Etzell]

Originally Posted by GambiT

A fuckload of crying

Originally Posted by GambiT

we get it, you don't like OT, fucking good for you, this forum is NOT for bashing ANY servers just because you want to fucking cry.

Lesson learned: It's okay to use the forum to cry, as long as you're not crying about a SERVER.

[The Drizzle]

Originally Posted by unbankthx

That fact has absolutely nothing to with the fact that OT acolytes come on here and spam that 'only 3% of the FF population is banned at our servers'.

where was that said? Maybe if you stare at post 37 long enough you can read what it actually says.

[unbankthx]

Originally Posted by GambiT

if all of you weren't so hell bent on ragging OT maybe they would'nt feel the need to defend themselves?

I never attacked them, don't include me in on the OT vs. everyone else shitslinging contest. I'm merely highly skeptical of a claim made by a member of OT, and called him on it.

Originally Posted by GambiT

me personally, i think it is YOU and all the other cry baby bitches on here that are draggin this game down. wah wah you got banned, learn to abey the fucking rules or get over it.

Yet again you're lumping me in a group I don't belong to. I'm banned from OT, and I happily accept my ban. There are other servers where I have a much better time, and I don't regret for a single nanosecond being banned from OT.

I respect OT for being their own individuals and handling their own matters how they see fit. I disagree with them, but I respect them for that.

Originally Posted by The Drizzle

where was that said? Maybe if you stare at post 37 long enough you can read what it actually says.

I think you mean post 27? Here it is, for reference.

Originally Posted by Gwarsbane

There goes people bashing OT again because they have rules that they enforce so that THEY and others that like those rules can enjoy themselves.

And ohhhhhh 3% of the peoples that have played on their servers are banned, Oh no the world is ending.... Course that is over what 6 or 7 different servers, from when ever the first OT servers were first brought on line at least 5 to 6 years or more ago. (I'm sure its longer then 6, i just can't remember).

Maybe I slightly took what was said out of context (I'm far from perfect), but it's pretty clear what Gwarsbane is implying.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by GambiT

oh, you speak for everybody?? when did this happen?? cus personally i enjoy a family friendly server a whole lot more than any other.

maybe if you weren't such a fucking tit and followed their rules you wouldnt "hurt" their feelings and get your ass banned?

Good job coming out of left field, and making the same stupid mistake everyone else has been making. I acknowledge that not following their rules will net you a ban. I am not at all surprised by that. I support their right to enforce whatever rules, but that doesn't change the fucking fact that they are stupid rules that make no sense for the context they are in.

I don't speak for everyone, but I think I speak for most people. Most people who play this game aren't pussies looking for a clean experience, simply because of what the game is. So, when they join the Old Timers, and get banned 'cause they said a swear over the microphone, and got treated like a child as a result (which only served to piss them the fuck off), they are going to react.

I can't change the Old Timers. That's not my goal. Some people see it as such. My goal is to get people to at-least acknowledge, as much as I acknowledge their right to enforce rules, that even if they like their rules, that their rule-set is out of fucking place, totally exceptional, which causes most people to get angry when they have a bad experience in that shithole. Again, it's like being thrown out of a bar for drinking alcohol. That's what you expect to be able to do there.

I personally don't give a shit about being banned from the Old Timers. I purposely got myself banned when I was new to Fortress Forever by spamming Soviet music over the microphone stream even when they told me to stop. They were justified in banning me. But, when I realized that their server was such the regulatory dump that it is, I then "crusaded" against their dumb server as turning people off from the game, because with only three active servers, that server represents Fortress Forever involuntarily, and the DERP TIMERS' owner, Scuzzy, was on here representing them and Fortress Forever by being a massive troll abusing his power.

[Iggy]

If you think OT is bad, pick up a copy of TFC and find the "Old Geezers and Broads" server.....

Seriously, they ban you for conc/rocket/nade/etc jumping while carrying the flag, Bunnyhopping anytime, or for being anything but a complete novice at the game. And for God's sake, don't try and TEACH them anything! Instant permban.

I understand where you are coming from, but seriously, get over it. I argued the same point with several TFC servers(especially heated when I was kicked for not changing my name fast enough for them... it was "Ignorant Bastard")... but still, you have to just forget about it, and find somewhere that suits your playing style.

[Bridget]

That sounds a lot like all of those shitty Day of Defeat realism servers.

[Innoc]

All these years later and the same whining. From the TFC Days I remember a whiney little puke who complained to me via email about being banned from my server, that he was a Las Vegas Police Officer, and that my banning action was illegal. Yeah....I'll get right on that. Not only a scumbag but a liar as well. No class and no honor.

If you don't like OT you're free to pony up your own money, put up your own server....do a better job and run them out of business because you do it better. You have no right to expect OT or anyone else for that matter to give your view the attention you demand.

But by all means....continue your impotent bawling...

[Bridget]

Innoc, king of the victim complex, accusing people of complaining...

DA IRONY

[Iggy]

Maybe, but he's right.

[JackBauer]

this thread is an interesting read and some good points have been brought up.

I think the biggest problem is the size of the current dev team. without knowing all the facts I would guess there are about 4-5 active dev guys. having a busy life myself I know how hard it is sometimes to motivate yourself for 'unpaid work' in your spare time.

if 4-5 dedicated and passionate folks joined them, a lot of things would be easier. I assume it's safe to say there is just no one there (with the needed requirements) that wants to join them... or am I wrong with my assumption?

[FrenchToast]

I have about a month of self-taught programming skillz in C, so I think I'm ready to join the dev team.