Tax Day

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

I am interested in seeing how Binary will address the question. While I do like him I seem to recall that he has some history with making broad statements that he won't support concretely. Trying to get him to do so may make for interesting reading. Regardless he's still a nice guy.

[stray kitten]

Originally Posted by Innoc

I am interested in seeing how Binary will address the question. While I do like him I seem to recall that he has some history with making broad statements that he won't support concretely. Trying to get him to do so may make for interesting reading. Regardless he's still a nice guy.

I think it's either Maher, Huffington or Stuart?

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

Yes, but there's a difference between an 'end of life panel', and a 'death panel'.

If the government decides to ration care based on the probability of an individuals benefit because of their age and the ROI on that procedure, what exactly do you call that? Because today insurance companies don't make that decision. Tomorrow the government insurance provider will. That is a fundemental change in who decides what care you get.

Scuzzy

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

Not that I think Sarah Palin should be head of anything more than a carpool, but what misinformation is she spreading?

Well death panels aside, she is convincing a group of people that they are paying an amount in taxes that they are not. In fact a majority of them are paying less than they have in an incredibly long time. This is based on tax cuts by the Obama administration put in place when he first took office. The majority of the tea party qualify for a great deal of his tax cuts. Palin doesn't, which is probably why she is so confused. But the people that she is "leading" do not.

I learned this from CNN, MSNBC, BBC broadcasting polls taken of the members to see how much the group knew about taxes. There was more spin involved in the segment but I didn't find it relevant to the actual poll which simply showed to me that she was motivating them based on things that were not true, hence misinformation.

This does bring up a thought though. As I had just assumed you all agreed. Suddenly this question leads me to believe that perhaps you don't But since the polls are pretty solid and widely agreed upon I wonder what your responce will be. I do assume you'll ask me to provide links to them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...11-503544.html

Of people who support the grassroots, "Tea Party" movement, only 2 percent think taxes have been decreased...

Now, CBS has its own validity, so I'll keep the statement there. You may choose to believe they are lying or wrong. That is up to you. I clearly believe they are telling the truth. Of course, that doesn't show blame on Palin for doing the misleading. Which I would hope would be your next concern.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...alin_to_1.html

Originally Posted by Palin

"Americans now spend 100 days out of the year working for government before we even start working for ourselves," she said. "It is time to remind [elected officials] that government should be working for us, we should not have to work for the government. That's why there are more and more patriots every day standing up and speaking out."

That link shows where I got her quote in print from, I can provide her full speech here: http://www.therightscoop.com/sarah-p...ton-tea-party/

I must say though, that there are many times where I hate the huffington post. It had her speech, sort of posted. That is to say it had the combined worst 3 minutes of her speech poorly cut together in a way that looked sloppy. It wasn't even subtle. That's a tangent complaint though.

These facts should link together Palin's speech with their lack of knowledge about taxes. Even if they didn't know before hand. She isn't helping. The things she said were wrong, and she was saying it to them. That's enough to prove my statement that she is feeding them misinformation. I really thought you all agreed here. I am surprised you don't. I don't expect you to magically agree after my post. But I don't know what you'll say, so I'm curious.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

I think it's either Maher, Huffington or Stuart?

I hate Bill Maher, Huffington is occasionally....rarely helpful. I like Jon Stuart... when he is fulfilling his chosen purpose, which is to be funny. I wouldn't start quoting him to prove point. My memory is legitimately poor, I can't remember if i did, or only wanted to reference him with Betsy McCaughey. A point on his own show where, since you're all talking about death panels he called her to point on the subject. She was unable to prove the bill had anything to say about the subject. She had it with her. She was holding the bill in her hands and reading directly from it, the passage SHE claimed supported her statement on the issue and clearly fell short on the whole burden of proof issue. While his show is a comedy show and I wouldn't normally bring it up in this fashion, he proved her wrong. Funny man or not, he showed people watching the truth and while I don't expect any one of you to admit it, or see it:

YouTube

YouTube

There it is. I just grabbed the first link I found on you tube. But the full un-edited version is on his website. There is no misread context or anything. Simply her inability to prove what she came to prove. This is a tangent of the thread so I wouldn't mind if it was split appropriately. But it was brought up as a negative to my character. As far as my vague responses go, well I work 60 hours and come home to my girlfriend so I rarely have an opportunity to back up my statements. I do realize this can be frustrating when you are reading my posts and for that I apologize. I have been equally frustrated in the past so I know how it feels and do sympathize. When I make these types of statements I will try to provide more links in the future. Typically I am lazy and when I can't find something right away I give up, and watch TV. In this case I have more time, but also care more about carrying on a successful dialogue.

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

Everything Binary Said because it's too long to quote

I find it interesting that people are still under the impression that Taxes aren't going to go up. Who do you think is going to pay for all this garbage and debt? It's naive and foolish to believe that taxes won't be raised. Sarah Palin aside, it's going to happen whether through the VAT tax which is currently a "novel" idea or a significant middle class tax increase. A VAT tax, in America? While it's not essentially a tax on the people, you will pay for it when you go to buy groceries and have to spend $50-$100 more because of this VAT tax.

Sarah Palin is irrelevant as a political threat. She is used purely as a "rock star" sort of figure to fire up the base. The Tea Party participants are quite a bit more intelligent than many will give them credit for. Most of them understand that they will eventually be hit in their check books. A larger majority understand that their children will be paying for this as well. Sarah Palin will not be the parties nomination, neither a 3rd party or the Republican party. The Tea Party leaders understand that splitting the Republican ticket is the worst thing that could possibly happen in 2012.

What may be much more interesting than any of this is if Obama pulls an LBJ and does not seek the nomination of his party. No one has anything to fear from the Alaskan hockey hottie, she will go on speaking/book tours and fall further in to political irrelevance.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

I find it interesting that people are still under the impression that Taxes aren't going to go up. Who do you think is going to pay for all this garbage and debt? It's naive and foolish to believe that taxes won't be raised. Sarah Palin aside, it's going to happen whether through the VAT tax which is currently a "novel" idea or a significant middle class tax increase. A VAT tax, in America? While it's not essentially a tax on the people, you will pay for it when you go to buy groceries and have to spend $50-$100 more because of this VAT tax.

Sarah Palin is irrelevant as a political threat. She is used purely as a "rock star" sort of figure to fire up the base. The Tea Party participants are quite a bit more intelligent than many will give them credit for. Most of them understand that they will eventually be hit in their check books. A larger majority understand that their children will be paying for this as well. Sarah Palin will not be the parties nomination, neither a 3rd party or the Republican party. The Tea Party leaders understand that splitting the Republican ticket is the worst thing that could possibly happen in 2012.

What may be much more interesting than any of this is if Obama pulls an LBJ and does not seek the nomination of his party. No one has anything to fear from the Alaskan hockey hottie, she will go on speaking/book tours and fall further in to political irrelevance.

I was talking about the claims that Sara Palin made as quoted and referenced. Even in the article I posted, it referenced that one of the reasons people didn't realize the taxes went down is because they are going to go up this next year. I, and the sources used, have no illusions about the upcoming tax hike in 2011. It wasn't was Palin was talking about, and it wasn't what I was talking about. I am not afraid of Palin, I don't like her. I think she's stupid. I wouldn't call her a threat politically but as far as the gene pool goes, she is certainly a threat there. I don't want to appear defensive, nor do I want to over react, but it appears as though the statements you made were assumptive arguments against the things that I said in my post. You didn't directly address anything I said you simply diverted the topic. I happen to agree, as I said that taxes will go up. I have opinions on that as well of course, but I am somewhat less educated on that topic. My understanding however, is that you can't fix a debt without raising taxes. Then I am not going to be affected by the raise in taxes since I don't make enough money, so of course I'm all for fixing the debt if I don't spend a dime. But, back to my post, the answers to the questions that were asked...

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

I was talking about the claims that Sara Palin made as quoted and referenced. Even in the article I posted, it referenced that one of the reasons people didn't realize the taxes went down is because they are going to go up this next year. I, and the sources used, have no illusions about the upcoming tax hike in 2011. It wasn't was Palin was talking about, and it wasn't what I was talking about. I am not afraid of Palin, I don't like her. I think she's stupid. I wouldn't call her a threat politically but as far as the gene pool goes, she is certainly a threat there. I don't want to appear defensive, nor do I want to over react, but it appears as though the statements you made were assumptive arguments against the things that I said in my post. You didn't directly address anything I said you simply diverted the topic. I happen to agree, as I said that taxes will go up. I have opinions on that as well of course, but I am somewhat less educated on that topic. My understanding however, is that you can't fix a debt without raising taxes. Then I am not going to be affected by the raise in taxes since I don't make enough money, so of course I'm all for fixing the debt if I don't spend a dime. But, back to my post, the answers to the questions that were asked...

I wasn't trying to deflect any questions, just merely trying to explain perhaps where the majority of people are coming from in regards to taxes, for not addressing the question, I apologize. If Sarah Palin is wrong, she is wrong, but I don't think that her lack of an expert opinion defines the opinions of the people in the Tea Party because of her irrelevance. Obviously the only way to even out debt is to raise taxes, something that was promised wouldn't happen during the 2008 campaign. That's where most of the angst and anger is coming from. Palin isn't spreading any more misinformation than the administration is putting out there. Truth of the matter is, Sarah Palin will continue to tell groups she speaks to that they are paying more taxes for as long as they are willing to believe they are, and obviously it will eventually be true.

[stray kitten]

So... has anyone on here paid less taxes since Obama took office? My income went down by about 30 percent and I paid MORE than last year. Also if you force people and corporations to pay the government that is a tax. No way around it, it's a tax. Regardless of weather you call it "health care".

//edit binary your vid link is dead.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

So... has anyone on here paid less taxes since Obama took office? My income went down by about 30 percent and I paid MORE than last year. Also if you force people and corporations to pay the government that is a tax. No way around it, it's a tax. Regardless of weather you call it "health care".

//edit binary your vid link is dead.

Which vid link the one of Sara Palin's speech in full? They may not have liked hot linking, just go to the website to find the full copy I'd rather not continue to hotlink on them if it's just a click away. Plus you may have already seen it. It's just the full, un edited copy of her speech at the tea party.

And my tax payments most certainly went down. I had lower income last year and I had a bigger refund than the previous year. Plus a stimulus package from Obama. I am getting an extra 400$ in the mail.

[stray kitten]

It was removed for copy write violation. Nothing to do with hot linking.

I got 2,000 back last year and had to pay in almost 1,000 this year.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

It was removed for copy write violation. Nothing to do with hot linking.

I got 2,000 back last year and had to pay in almost 1,000 this year.

Viacom will do that to videos on you tube. Also it's available on comedy central's website. I can't explain your personal tax situation as I am not an accountant, nor can I verify your personal experience. I'm sorry to hear it. There are explanations though, your tax status could have changed with your payment source itself, or you could have received non-taxed income perhaps from a cashed CD or annuity. All of these things are mere guesses of course. But what I can say, is that according to CBS news, as posted, taxes for the USA went down in since Obama took office. That's a verified fact.

As I mentioned earlier they are certainly going to increase, the same source, CBS news verifies that fact, in the same posted link I up there on them internets. I have to apologize, but I'm not sure what your point is here.

You say your personal taxes went up, but there really are so many explanations for that possibility assuming we all take it as truth. Not to mention, that your unverified personal experience doesn't negate the verified polls of various news sources. But then I could be misunderstanding your point entirely and you could very simply be sharing an interesting anecdote that explains your opinion on this matter.

[stray kitten]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

Viacom will do that to videos on you tube. Also it's available on comedy central's website. I can't explain your personal tax situation as I am not an accountant, nor can I verify your personal experience. I'm sorry to hear it. There are explanations though, your tax status could have changed with your payment source itself, or you could have received non-taxed income perhaps from a cashed CD or annuity. All of these things are mere guesses of course. But what I can say, is that according to CBS news, as posted, taxes for the USA went down in since Obama took office. That's a verified fact.

As I mentioned earlier they are certainly going to increase, the same source, CBS news verifies that fact, in the same posted link I up there on them internets. I have to apologize, but I'm not sure what your point is here.

You say your personal taxes went up, but there really are so many explanations for that possibility assuming we all take it as truth. Not to mention, that your unverified personal experience doesn't negate the verified polls of various news sources. But then I could be misunderstanding your point entirely and you could very simply be sharing an interesting anecdote that explains your opinion on this matter.

I merely asked a question do people pay more in taxes this year than last, and stated I did. And I gave some personal feedback because you did. If I did not I would state otherwise. It's not rocket science. I personally do not qualify for any tax breaks under Obama. But that brings me to a another point. If you take away tax cuts that is in effect a tax increase and that is what a lot of conservatives harp on in addition to the budget projections for healthcare. People don't kike almost a third of their income going to a failed bureaucracy of waste and abuse. We could all give 100 percent of our income and they would still be in a budget deficit. It's fucking unbelievable to some of us. But your reading to far into it. My point is, how many people had tax increases this year? You either paid more or less, it's simple.

You paid less, I paid more.


http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm