O_o

[uBeR]

What great philosophies did 1910 bring us? I mean, yeah, classical philosophy came out of ancient times, but that's a fairly irrelevant point. Take a look at almost any branch of philosophy. It's improved significantly over time. Let's take a relevant example of political philosophy, which took a radical shift in the seventeenth century: the Age of Enlightenment. It was around this time that people began to question "who the rules applied to," much to chagrin of those in positions of power and authority. This is when ideas of modern democracy began to sprout, though they were often chided for "complicating" things and otherwise "causing drama." Political philosophy has certainly improved since then, though that is not to say there have not been people trying as hard as possible to revert to these bygone days were it was merely accepted that we not question "who the rules apply to," because we're suppose to acquiesce. People who prefer these old ways to new ideas are called conservatives. I also don't mean to imply we're currently in some kind of utopia, "the end of history," especially considering those who do wish to revert to these bygones days are very resolute. But I wouldn't say the 1970s were some high point in free and independent thought. I don't see any evidence for that. But how did free and independent thinkers even get there in the 1970s? It was previous struggles against the very perverse culture that adheres to principles of discipline and obedience to certain power structures. The culture is still there, as we've witnessed, but I believe it be slowly fading, even since, say, the 1970s.

[stray kitten]

I wasn't making a point that 1910 specifically brought some great philosophies etc. I was making a point that the past did. But if you want to get critical that decade saw the beginning of quantum theories and formulation of the theories of relativity to be published a few years later. Also Marxist ideals, social justice and social revolution in the form of the Communist Manifesto. Along with some of Freud's work off the top of my head.

Ideas of modern democracy took seed 1000s of years ago. If you think about it, one could make a case that is was the collapse of authority that delayed it's eventual acceptance to current levels. Maybe 1/3 of the planet.

What is interesting to me is you don't seem to view increased power and authority by a federal government as "perverse culture that adheres to principles of discipline and obedience to certain power structures."

I think the 70s was the pinnacle because the old power structure of a faltering religious based doctrine was out and the federal overtake of personal choice and freedom was just getting going in the form of "social reform".

[uBeR]

Yeah, some new philosophies sprouted out of the 1910s, but have they not improved since then? Have quantum theories gone nowhere since 1910? The point I was making was that there still people immersed in perverse cultures that are seriously outdated, what others have called a "poor philosophy." That's the reason for this entire discussion. As for modern democracy, it came out of the Enlightenment. Modern democracy is qualitatively different than, say, ancient Roman democracy, for important reasons. You'll also note that nowhere in my posts do I associated the expansion of government with free and independent thought. But it's pretty interesting the type of government power you go after, which is social welfare, or, in other words, democracy. In that case, yes, I do have trouble seeing the expansion of democracy as anything other than free and independent thought, or simply an attack on the type of "poor philosophies" that people (here) still seem to cling to. But that's probably starting to go off topic. Let's try to discuss what Mooga wanted to discuss, which is the disappearance of the all the posts, which I think I've explained fairly accurately.

[Iggy]

So.... who has the better society? Americans, or the Bushmen?

[Credge]

The martians, of course.

[Etzell]

Originally Posted by Iggy

So.... who has the better society? Americans, or the Bushmen?

The problem lies in the fact that better isn't objective. A common (but incorrect) anthropological belief is that "civilization" is a 1-way street that starts at villages and ends in New York City.
But it doesn't work like that. And so forth.

[Credge]

Well, if societies can be measured by their achievements then surely the venutians or even the civilization that Klatu comes from would be the best.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Etzell

The problem lies in the fact that better isn't objective. A common (but incorrect) anthropological belief is that "civilization" is a 1-way street that starts at villages and ends in New York City.
But it doesn't work like that. And so forth.

THIS was my point. Excellent work, Etzell!

[stray kitten]

Originally Posted by uBeR

Yeah, some new philosophies sprouted out of the 1910s, but have they not improved since then? Have quantum theories gone nowhere since 1910? The point I was making was that there still people immersed in perverse cultures that are seriously outdated, what others have called a "poor philosophy." That's the reason for this entire discussion. As for modern democracy, it came out of the Enlightenment. Modern democracy is qualitatively different than, say, ancient Roman democracy, for important reasons. You'll also note that nowhere in my posts do I associated the expansion of government with free and independent thought. But it's pretty interesting the type of government power you go after, which is social welfare, or, in other words, democracy. In that case, yes, I do have trouble seeing the expansion of democracy as anything other than free and independent thought, or simply an attack on the type of "poor philosophies" that people (here) still seem to cling to. But that's probably starting to go off topic. Let's try to discuss what Mooga wanted to discuss, which is the disappearance of the all the posts, which I think I've explained fairly accurately.

Sure philosophies always improve. Unless your talking about Neo-Conservatism and liberalism. They went the opposite way.

I wasn't referring to your post inregards to the government but of stances you take over time regarding issues that come up. Position statements that are now gone. So back on topic.

[GenghisTron]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

Sure philosophies always improve. Unless your talking about Neo-Conservatism and liberalism. They went the opposite way.

So true.