Learning from ETF

[o_prankster]

This isnt about putting down ETF [ http://www.etfgame.com/ ] , as iam sure it will be a great game. But more the fact that alot of ppl hadnt heard of the game until a short time ago, whereas the game is due to be released over the christmas hols . The idea of ETF must of been made public atleast 6/8 months ago and its only now making news just before its alpha.

Just that i fear if F-F doesnt have a big fanbase before its release it could be in trouble of not being recognised enough. Sure the TFC clan scene will move over too it but how small will that will be by the time its done ? . Who knows Valve could well turn around at any time and let out a TFC:S version and there are other teams with much the same idea as this one.

So how does the mod attract intrest from all the CS and MMORPG whores ?
Well id say this is where the community step in and actually do something instead of the usual whine about valve/leagues :P . Iam sure the Dev team here will do a good job keeping us upto date with some media news but then its up to us to bring that to the masses . Once there are some real screenshots and concept art here on the main site if everyone just passed that news on to one form of game related site, it would mean excellent exposure. Also expanding already known TFC site like the democenter with a F-F section could go a long way, or just a completly new site dedicated to Fortress style mods.

Any more ideas ?

[o_rebo]

You make a very good point about that mod prankster. I think the major difference with our mod, is that it will not just be a port of existing code/gameplay. But an attempt at least in part to widen the appeal of fortress style gameplay and include elements that appeal to a wider audience.

[o_zydell]

You might be right that the community can attract some public here and of course it is of the highest importance that many people know of this project before it is being released, but what I have always found with the projects that turned into hits is that if the game is simply good then you'll get your community and your 'players' anyways. There's actually a few situations here and Ill also give some examples of what I think is the big difference and what we can learn from it.

First one is that you have a overhyped game (large community, loads of fans etc) but when the game is released it turns out that its no fun at all, a good example is Bid For Power. BFP had a really large community but when it was finally released (after much legal problems etc.) it turned down a lot of people Im afraid, either because of their high expectations or that the gameplay simply isnt that great.

Another situation is where you have a game/mod that doesnt have a large community and starts small. An example of this is counter-strike back on the beta's TFC had loads more players but over its development it hasn now become to single number 1 reason for people to buy half-life after more then 4 years.

There is a big difference between these two situation and one reason, I believe that is the key factor to succes for counter-strike was that they released beta's and kept modifying and tweaking the gameplay until they thought the game was really *finished* (although some people disagree by saying that CS1.6 is better). When BFP was released there were only a few small bugfixes but they never did any work on getting input from the public and tweaking the game-play to perfection, which I feel is one of the crucial factors on a succesfull game/mod.

So any solution? The big difference between mods and *real games* is that most mods arent tested enough during development. Commercial video games have *A LOT OF* people dedicated to testing bugs and gameplay (and not just that, the most important task is that understandable feedback reaches the coders/artist who have been working on the game so far). What happends on most mods is that the only people who test mods are the developers themselves. I feel that by allowing a small group of die-hard tfc'ers test the game you will develop a mod that suits them and of course *it is their mod* but I feel thats not enough. For a mod to be succesfull the public should like it. Ive always heard people say that liking or disliking a game is just an opinion. What we know for a fact is that the concept of CTF works and believe me, small adjustments on gameplay can me a great difference on wheter people will continue playing a game or move on to the next one. A crucial factor in developing a succesfull game is that is has a thoroughly tested gameplay, which should start as soon as the early half playable alpha's are ready. And I feel that is one of the key factors that this team should keep in mind,

[o_prankster]

So in other words you are avail for playtesting zydell ? :P

[o_sabre]

Since the FF team is doing loads of work for the community to make the game, it's only fair the rest of the community pulls it's weight and get's the word around about this mod, things such as posts on other gaming forums etc.

[o_zydell]

Originally Posted by Prankster

So in other words you are avail for playtesting zydell ? :P

No I am certainly not interested in 'beta - testing' it is just some advice.

[o_shuriken]

Actually Prankster, our promotion has gone pretty much according to plan. We would have wanted to be where we are with it a week or two ago, but really it would have been worse to over-hype it at the start. Both the fortress evolution and D3F projects suffered from that and then failed. By having people find out later in our production cycle, they have less time to wait / forget about it.

But then again, we'll really only know how well we did when we release the game.


*crosses fingers*

I hope you all give it a try. We've had a testing team of 30+ going over our work for the past 5 months, I must say I'm very happy with it.

[o_eat]

Although we are cant give you much detail of the things we have planned, one thing that is at the top of the agenda is making Fortress Forever a mod for the community. We hope to continuely improve the game with the help from player feedback. This has to be one of the main reasons TFC died (or is still dying?!) as Valve didnt listen to anything we said and just treated TFC as a place to try new ideas.

As for hype and promotion, we shouldnt get ahead of ourselves. We dont have a finished website to display our ideas and images so it would be unprofessional to release media through forums (although Sev has been lighting up the private forums with some really kick ass modelling).

[o_shaolin]

Have you filled all the positions then eat? The post I read from debaff said you were looking for a couple.

[o_pedro]

Damnit, someone finish the site so we can see these awesome models >.<

[Defrag]

Good luck to ETF, I enjoyed playing Q3F 1h

[mirvin_monkey]

Originally Posted by Shuriken

Actually Prankster, our promotion has gone pretty much according to plan. We would have wanted to be where we are with it a week or two ago, but really it would have been worse to over-hype it at the start. Both the fortress evolution and D3F projects suffered from that and then failed. By having people find out later in our production cycle, they have less time to wait / forget about it.

But then again, we'll really only know how well we did when we release the game.


*crosses fingers*

I hope you all give it a try. We've had a testing team of 30+ going over our work for the past 5 months, I must say I'm very happy with it.

Best of luck guys!

[o_meisteh]

someone leaked the link to screenies! eat, your logo looks similar to that of ETF

[Defrag]

Bleh. eat's logo was designed about a year ago; we're changing it anyway as the MOD is no longer called Team Fortress Forever, it's just FF.

To anyone with leaked pics, please don't spread them as it's pretty much all work in progress. We'll put some nice screens up on the website once it's ready and we have good renders. There's only one truly finished thing that you've seen.

[o_zydell]

Originally Posted by Defrag

Bleh. eat's logo was designed about a year ago; we're changing it anyway as the MOD is no longer called Team Fortress Forever, it's just FF.

To anyone with leaked pics, please don't spread them as it's pretty much all work in progress. We'll put some nice screens up on the website once it's ready and we have good renders. There's only one truly finished thing that you've seen.

I was hoping the front page logo was just a temp design but I feel that since it is you should remove it. Anyways I was wondering how the webby is progressing...?

[o_storm]

I am a strong believer in a truly great game gaining community support and gaining numbers over time. How many of us had TFC shown to us by a friend? I bet a lot! If you guys manage to hit the nail on the head TFC peeps will move across, retired peeps will come back, and the word will spread. Its a big IF as I am sure you know as the majority of mods fall flat on their face. However I feel confident this team will make something worthy of me coming out of retirement :P

[o_shaolin]

It's obviously a mix of both elements, you want to publicise the mod to drum up interest and hopefully (and I am sure it will) the mod will be good enough that word of mouth brings in more people.
Where I would be most careful is hyping it too much, if you hype it and the audience that awaits it finds it's disappointing, then many people will be put off by their negativity. I don't mention this in a bad way, but a few games have been over-hyped or turned out different to what the pre-release fan base expected, and the resultant opinion has driven away people before they tried it. It's better that the target audience has as few preconceptions as possible, because this means there are less to break.

[o_paddn ur stats]

I left Neo-TF before the helicopter upgrades and about the time the EMOBA server switched back to old tfc. The hacks were rampant back then, and the game was losing its fun (to me). I went for Dark Age of Campalot, and being the 6-8hours a nite i put in as an admin on emoba every nite I quickly became a power gamer of the MMORPGS. However after 3 years od DAOC, Ive become married, my wifes had a beautiful lil boy and I dont have the "time sink" mentality to stay with MMORPGs that promise to "fix the game soon, but in the mean time send in your appeals and you CC#s) So with all of the life situations pulling me from the power gamer I once was here I am again. I think alot of us that started with HL/TFC whatever and left and went to any kind of MMORPG, and had real life prioritize our lives for us, this will please the competitive nature you wish you could do with a MMORPG w/o the time sink investment and gave a good group of guys that will welcome feedback on bugs. I know for a fact when i get home working 2nd shift, wifes asleep, baby is asleep, DAOC people are asleep or loggn, its just not worth the $$ to keep paying on, but back in the day I can remember EMOBA or whoevers server that had a kick ass rep and good natured admins would be packed til about 4-6am depending. That says alot imo.. I hope FF goes down this road..

If you would ever like a late nite tester for anything PM me im usually around and willing to help.