Help!!(vertex manipulation)

o_gambit · 02-02-2007, 08:13 PM

heres my problem...i vertex something and save the map and come back into it and its all fucked up....wayyyy off grid and everything...i have "snap to grid" checked...i dont know what the fucking problem is but its pissing me off...does anybody know what the hell i'm doing wrong?????

o_sta_sirtiger · 02-02-2007, 08:35 PM

Grid 1 I'm assuming? It's better to avoid messing around with such low grid, but sometimes it's a must so I understand. You probably didn't actually manipulate whatever you were working on correctly and placed the vertices off grid, reason why they are jumping around. Complex shit also jumps around sometimes.

o_thewetmule · 02-02-2007, 08:45 PM

Also, might wanna look up on invalid solids to further understand what you borked :P but at least you're using Vertex CARVE IS TEH DEMONZ0rz00z0z

o_sh4x · 02-02-2007, 09:00 PM

There are some stuff that will never work using vertex manipulation.

That's 1 of the mistakes I did when I started mapping.

I thought to myself: "Hey, this vertex manipulation tool lets me do everything I want, it's kinda slow, but I can do really complex geometry, great Let's do this super nice shape I have in mind!"

Then after hours of vertex manipulation, everything looks just right in hammer. Every damn point is on the grid and it looks fucking sweet.

Compile, load the map, "WTF!, why is there a glitch in the shape"... exit

Save the map, restart hammer, reload the map, "WTF!? The points moved by themselves when saving and reloading."

"Ok, maybe I didn't really put them on the grid correctly the first time..." So I take every fucking point one by one and make sure they are all on the grid.

(this is where I get the brilliant idea of not compile but just saving in hammer and reloading)... just to find out that the points are all fucked up again.

So I gave up on complex vertex manipulation, GG hammer, you got me.

You're gonna have to think of another way to do something similar.

o_gambit · 02-02-2007, 09:17 PM

yea i may have to ditch what i was trying to do...this isnt the first time i've had this problem...just the first since i've been on the FF forums and i thought i'd ask...its almost enough to make you quit mapping...taking your time to make sure the map has no errors and making sure ALL points or on the grid just to have them screw up on ya...its bullshit...but i'll work around it i guess

o_nezumi · 02-02-2007, 09:34 PM

If you have time and brush faces to spare, you can make all your solids into tetrahedrons. Then they pretty much work no matter what.

o_imbrifer · 02-02-2007, 10:14 PM

Yeah, Nezumi's got it. When I have issues like that its usually because I have a box that is at an angle and Hammer don't roll that way.

So cut it up until all the sides of the shape are triangles. That way you can make funny angle faces that work because they are two triangles together instead of one square face. Yeah.

GIS for 'tetrahedron':

o_fisheye · 02-03-2007, 01:06 PM

i'd hoped that valve had fixed some of the old vertex bugs when they released hammer4, but they didn't. they made it worse instead. maybe, with all the fancy models, they don't care about complex world brushes, or how to make them.

o_nezumi · 02-04-2007, 07:05 AM

It's mostly a problem with brush based geometry in general anyway.

o_bumgravy · 02-04-2007, 08:26 AM

since using hammer for source i havent encountered any vertexing bugs. you cant go wrong if you stick to the tetrahedrals.

02-02-2007, 08:13 PM	#1
o_gambit Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Help!!(vertex manipulation) heres my problem...i vertex something and save the map and come back into it and its all fucked up....wayyyy off grid and everything...i have "snap to grid" checked...i dont know what the fucking problem is but its pissing me off...does anybody know what the hell i'm doing wrong?????

02-02-2007, 09:00 PM	#4
o_sh4x Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Oh yeah I go a great story on this... There are some stuff that will never work using vertex manipulation. That's 1 of the mistakes I did when I started mapping. I thought to myself: "Hey, this vertex manipulation tool lets me do everything I want, it's kinda slow, but I can do really complex geometry, great Let's do this super nice shape I have in mind!" Then after hours of vertex manipulation, everything looks just right in hammer. Every damn point is on the grid and it looks fucking sweet. Compile, load the map, "WTF!, why is there a glitch in the shape"... exit Save the map, restart hammer, reload the map, "WTF!? The points moved by themselves when saving and reloading." "Ok, maybe I didn't really put them on the grid correctly the first time..." So I take every fucking point one by one and make sure they are all on the grid. (this is where I get the brilliant idea of not compile but just saving in hammer and reloading)... just to find out that the points are all fucked up again. So I gave up on complex vertex manipulation, GG hammer, you got me. You're gonna have to think of another way to do something similar.

02-02-2007, 08:35 PM	#2
o_sta_sirtiger Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas, THE USA!!! Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Grid 1 I'm assuming? It's better to avoid messing around with such low grid, but sometimes it's a must so I understand. You probably didn't actually manipulate whatever you were working on correctly and placed the vertices off grid, reason why they are jumping around. Complex shit also jumps around sometimes.

02-02-2007, 08:45 PM	#3
o_thewetmule Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Also, might wanna look up on invalid solids to further understand what you borked :P but at least you're using Vertex CARVE IS TEH DEMONZ0rz00z0z

02-02-2007, 09:17 PM	#5
o_gambit Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	yea i may have to ditch what i was trying to do...this isnt the first time i've had this problem...just the first since i've been on the FF forums and i thought i'd ask...its almost enough to make you quit mapping...taking your time to make sure the map has no errors and making sure ALL points or on the grid just to have them screw up on ya...its bullshit...but i'll work around it i guess

02-02-2007, 09:34 PM	#6
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If you have time and brush faces to spare, you can make all your solids into tetrahedrons. Then they pretty much work no matter what.

02-02-2007, 10:14 PM	#7
o_imbrifer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Changes every few months Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yeah, Nezumi's got it. When I have issues like that its usually because I have a box that is at an angle and Hammer don't roll that way. So cut it up until all the sides of the shape are triangles. That way you can make funny angle faces that work because they are two triangles together instead of one square face. Yeah. GIS for 'tetrahedron':

02-03-2007, 01:06 PM	#8
o_fisheye Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i'd hoped that valve had fixed some of the old vertex bugs when they released hammer4, but they didn't. they made it worse instead. maybe, with all the fancy models, they don't care about complex world brushes, or how to make them.

02-04-2007, 07:05 AM	#9
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It's mostly a problem with brush based geometry in general anyway.

02-04-2007, 08:26 AM	#10
o_bumgravy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	since using hammer for source i havent encountered any vertexing bugs. you cant go wrong if you stick to the tetrahedrals.

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