07-05-2006, 11:00 PM | #21 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals
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Defrag has a good point, that 2fort and dust are popular because they're fast direct and easy to learn (And came with the game, I might add)
Although de_dust is NOT balanced. A good CT team can totally shut down the map. Unlike 2fort it's never played in matches. |
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07-06-2006, 02:44 AM | #22 |
Join Date: May 2005
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Balance is generally more tricky when it comes to CP or AD maps. Except if they are done like CZ2. This is probably one reason why people shy away from making non mirror-image map styles - you may have to rework an entire section of the map after playtesting if it isn't balanced enough that it's fun.
I'd like to make a CP map that is a futuristic, fortress-y city, with one CP up high in a building, another in the middle of a street, a third on a tram that's moving around town and one in sewers or something, but balancing such a map would be a major pain - so it's now at the bottom of my 'to-do' list. |
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07-06-2006, 06:34 AM | #23 |
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People could do things the CS/avd way, where one side plays Ts/offence for a while then the teams switch, even with a CTF map.
The benefit of TFC/FF is that you can build team-switching into the map, like avanti. You could do this on any type of map, really. You could even have a non-mirrored CTF map where the teams switch every so often. That might get a little awkward, but having your own unique style of map is a lot easier if you don't have to guarantee perfect balance between teams. |
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07-06-2006, 03:29 PM | #24 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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07-06-2006, 03:39 PM | #25 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Yorkshire
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Dust is balanced and if anything, T sided, as long as the terrorists can get a good enough spawn to rush B1 fast enough, then leaving a sweeper = win.
It's played so much because it's simple, small and easy to learn. The fact that it's boring as hell to 90% of seasoned/clanned players seems irrelevant to how popular the game is on pubs. |
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07-07-2006, 03:37 AM | #26 | |
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Idaho
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07-08-2006, 11:57 AM | #27 | |
Join Date: May 2005
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Saying that the most unbalanced map (de_aztec) is one of the most popular but not when it comes so serious clan games. It is obvious to me good balanced gameplay and how popular a map is are not so obviously connected, so many factors such as lighting and textureing people overlook but they play a massive roll in the maps popularity. If level design was easy everyone would be good at it, experiance teaches you what works and what doesnt, there really isnt a guide. |
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07-08-2006, 01:00 PM | #28 | |
Retired FF Staff
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07-09-2006, 12:22 AM | #29 |
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But there's no doubt that dust is popular on pubs because, like defrag said, it's simple and easy to learn.
...and a lot more boring than 2fort Last edited by o_nezumi; 07-09-2006 at 10:22 AM. |
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07-09-2006, 06:03 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Coast, USA
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I thought I would speak up and echo what's already been said about if a map is designed in such a way that the O cap time after time after time does nothing but emasculate the defense. The inverse is also true.
Additionally, a balanced map, in my opinion, is fun to play with every class, and in any role. I mean, that's the goal, and not one that's often attained, but some maps come damn close. If you can press the random class button and still have a good time, I say that's a balanced map. Last edited by o_addicted to morphine; 07-09-2006 at 06:18 AM. |
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07-09-2006, 06:51 AM | #31 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tampa
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Then I don't think any map is balanced because I can't remember the last time I had fun playing pyro
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07-09-2006, 07:14 AM | #32 | |
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07-09-2006, 10:28 AM | #33 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I was making a map, ff_harbor, where it occured to me that every class could be usefull, to an extent (in my head anyway). The gametype was essentially 2-way hunted. There was a VIP and his team of bodyguards fighting another VIP and their team of bodyguards. The map was a big asymmetrical city, and the 2 teams spawned in a random location every round so you didn't neccesarily know where your enemies were coming from. All the regular off/def classes would be usefull in their normal roles trying to defend/kill one vip, but the VIP himself would be usefull if he was a bunch of different classes. He could be really hard to kill as a VIP, really hard to catch as a medic/scout/pyro, really impossible to find as a spy, and so on.
I was hoping that there were enough different strategies (hiding, running, locking down def, going offensive, etc) to make all the classes usefull to some member of the team at some point. |
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07-09-2006, 05:07 PM | #34 |
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Idaho
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Make the thread for that map!
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07-09-2006, 09:00 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Oops, it's here.
http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...ead.php?t=1163 It's kinda old now. I've shelved the map and I'm going to completely redo the layout. The old one had a serious lack of vis-blocking and there are some other more important things to do first. It's like the best idea I've ever had though so I'm going to finish it someday for sure. But this is all a little OT... |
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