The usual midfild

[o_own3r]

A shift in focus is needed in my opinion, from focusing mainly on the base to focusing on the midfield. The current average is a square concrete yard with high walls and a base at either side. This is no further than quake1 was 10 years ago, i firmly believe we can design more varied midfields with at least some variation the square concrete just doesn't cut it anymore.

Think about different shapes, multiple planes on which combat can be fought and linking these planes with smooth transitions.

[o_imbrifer]

More interesting midfields would be nice. Some trees to hide behind, or buildings with different level walkways, etc. There are generally very defined regions of most Fortress-style maps. Making more interesting midfields goes hand-in-hand with creating more original maps and even different map types.

[o_nezumi]

I totally agree. The yard doesn't even have to be one big room. I'd like to see a map where the boundries between areas like the yard, fd, ramproom and so on are less well defined and sorta blend together too.

[Lost]

But then you get arguements of "oh noes, I can't double concjump then behop then superninjawizard all the way across the map."

I'd love to see creative midmaps, makes a change in tactics a necessity.

[o_shadow34721]

why focus on a section of the map that just gets conced over?
the only purpose of a midfield is to reduce to viability of heavy offense.

focus should instead be on where the actual fighting (should be) taking place!

[o_darthgreg]

Designing a midfield that doesn't have the potential for round-stopping offense vs. offense encounters, while allowing for courtyard flag holds, is a more interesting challenge, in my mind. In modern TFC matchplay the midfield is either ignored - simply run through or conced over - or a place for each team's offense to fight each other rather than trying for the flag.

[o_own3r]

I like concing aswell i must admit, so i would definatly cater for that just mixing it up a bit too, probably with two ways through the midfield and an open area outside each base, with some sort of building or cliff pass? in the middle.

[o_nezumi]

Sounds something like badlands. All the fun happens in the midmap.

[o_afx]

Originally Posted by Own3r

A shift in focus is needed in my opinion, from focusing mainly on the base to focusing on the midfield. The current average is a square concrete yard with high walls and a base at either side. This is no further than quake1 was 10 years ago, i firmly believe we can design more varied midfields with at least some variation the square concrete just doesn't cut it anymore.

Think about different shapes, multiple planes on which combat can be fought and linking these planes with smooth transitions.

If someone can come up with an alternative to the normal midmap, assuming it works then people will play it. Theres no rulebook that says, must have 2 bases with an empty bit in the middle. The fact that this is what we started with in qwtf and are still using now is because it works and lets people get to where the action is as quickly as possible.

By all means come up with something new, but for me, if youre going for a pure ctf map, then i dont want to have to fuck about in midfield, i just want to get to the enemies base, and their flag with a minimum of fuss.

[o_imbrifer]

Question for fellow mappers:
Would it be too hard on someone's system to have no VIS barriers in the map?

For example, I'm considering making an open forest map with assorted wreckage and towers, and then two bases that are concrete pits in the ground. Would peoples' videocards asplode if there were 20 people on this map?

[o_sokrateas]

I think with hint_brushes you might be able to optimize it. PS, what the hell does that have to do with this?

[o_player]

It would have a unique midmap...

Imbrifer, it depends really. With these concrete pits that lead to the bases, do they lead you underground? As in, are the bases underground? If so, then I don't see how it would cause huge fps drops if the mid map was designed well.

[o_sidd42]

Imbrifer, If you are thinking of just a great flat plane with trees and small wreckage, then either it needs to be small and simple enough so you can draw everything at the same time, or it needs to be foggy to hide a clip plane

[o_racer]

Just wanted to clarify my position on Crossover2.
In some matchs and in some cases in pubs it has gotten insanely spammy at the bridge. Usually only if it has alot of players or one team sucks. What I was trying to point out was it had 3 distinct routes, water, bridge and detable tunnel.

Here is how I would make Crossover 3. (I tried mapping dont ask what happened lets just say im lucky not to be in jail). I would add two side bridges. In the example you can see the one side bridge. The red end opening goes directly into the detable tunnel, the blue side could either go to the curve near that blue lined center wall or could go slightly right and come out in the yard near say the lift (but still just yards to the side of the main opening).

Above for visual interest and a lil more detail, add a catwalk with a ladder up. Or could remove the ladder and only way to catwalk is to conc (or rj, gj).

the near side would have the same thing. Now it has 3 bridges in the same space, still with water acess.

[o_6.6]

I definitely like the idea of varied midfields and would love to see a lot of action take place there. One of my favorites was 2mach from QTF. Even though it was pretty small, it had some nice wreckage in there and the action was just non-stop.

For my part, I'm going to try my hand at map-making with having an interesting midfield as a central piece of the map. It would take the basic box approach, but running along either side of the box walls would be a hallway with windows looking over the field so defenders could provide fire from both sides against those running up through the middle. Also, these halls would not continue into the other team's base, so they're strictly for defense. In addition, there would be an elevated walkway overtop of the midfield which would provide either a roof or second-floor access to the base. Finally, the midfield would be surrounded by a moat with bridges going to each base. Through the water would be a third entrance to each base in the style of 2fort.

I think the halls on either side of the midfield could provide for some fun play as you'll have crossfire coming from both sides and they would be angled so you could just take out the opposing team's hallway, so there would be fire coming from that direction, as well.

It at least sounds like a good idea to me, so I'm interested in your thoughts.

[o_fragile]

make the bases floating, with jump pads launching a player from one to another. and have some sorta landing zone where it doesnt hurt to crater into.

[o_own3r]

Originally Posted by Fragile

make the bases floating, with jump pads launching a player from one to another. and have some sorta landing zone where it doesnt hurt to crater into.

I have looked into jump pads on HL2, using exsisting entities its not very practical. If something could be done with LUA or in FF that would be by far the best option for jump pads.

Currently the func_push entities can only point horizontally or vertically, they do not fire the player very effectivly like in quake so levels have to be designed with smooth plane transitions like ramps and stairs.

[o_nezumi]

You can make launchers that work pretty well in source. You just need the launcher to be a ramp.

Stuff like these can send you all the way across the map at a good altitude.

[mervaka]

doesnt func_push have a pitch/yaw/roll? if not, it needs it!

[o_ian.de]

midfields are consistently boring because all they are is a passageway to the enemy base, nothing more. Theres no camping, fighting, defending or anything going on in the yard. People take the fastest possible route to the enemy base. A long, drawn out, confusing yard isn't fun for anyone.

I'm talking from a competitive play stand-point. Nothing pisses me off more than a yard that is way too large or long. I just want to get back into the action.

Focusing fighting into the yard is also not a good idea because you then get HW spam, snipers, pointless chaos.

Concrete boxes are retarded, I'll agree, but no one who plays offense (competitively) likes a long drawn out yard. It can make the difference between 100 runs in a match or 60-70.