Team Fortress 2 seems like it was....Xboxed?

Peon · 08-20-2007, 05:58 AM

I saw a video about TF2 recently...I think it may have been the one that Punkrockrocks posted...where one of the developers was, sort of, critiqueing TFC for not facilitating players to do some sort of "power bonding." He said in TFC it wasn't as easy to find a player or group of players and work as a group because there were so many people off doing they're own thing. He went on to say that what he set out to do in TF2 was make it so a smaller group, like 2-3 players, could really play more as a team. In the process the players would form a stronger bond with the player/s you teamed with, for at least that round, he says.

So over all I get the impression that this game has been designed for smaller groups of players, which generally isn't a consideration on the PC. I mean what's the max players going to be in FF? I'm betting around 64 at first...unless I'm wrong and this has already been covered somewhere else in the forum. I know I've seen 64+ player servers in TFC. I know there are tons of 64 player BF2 servers, and 32 player CS and CS:S servers. There's BF2142, Q4, and Unreal 64+ servers to boot. It would seem that on the PC you try to get as many players on as possible.

But what about the power bonding this guy was talking about? This can't be done on any games with players of that magnitude for sure right? Well I would say he is only minimally right. One thing that helps online multi-player is KNOWING people. First you meet folks by talking to them hopefully, and meeting them optimally. Then you and all of your friends go in to a game and work together every game and play most days. It's also not hard,via the game, to find servers online that you like, and play there regularly. You'll be sure to meet some regular players that way...Whatever. Either way it looks more and more like TF2 has been made for more casual gamers, and not regulars.

So I Googled "max players TF2 Xbox 360," knowing full well that many PC games are ported to the 360, and vice versa, but they are rarely better than the PC version. In fact, the 360 looks rather limited in what you can do with a game compared to the PC. While not having as much RAM as your typical PC gamer, the 360 is always limited in the number of players per server. Sure enough, the X360 TF2 multiplayer limit is 16. That's right, only 8 vs 8 max...kinda seems crappy. Given that nades are gone, controls are now more easily workable on a X360 gamepad.

So maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I want to be the first one to coin the term by claiming that TF2 has been Xboxed. The definition of which would be what happens to a game that started out for the PC, but was then dumbed down to also work on the more lucrative Xbox audience. I've always been of the opinion that the X360 is too expensive to be so amateur hour. A good PC is expensive, but what you can do with one is immensly greater. Plus it's pretty cheap if you can build it yourself, and sell your used parts to upgrade. A simple logic to work with is imagine taking the cost of an X360 plus one year of Xbox live, and ad that dollar amount in new gaming parts for your PC. Sell your old parts and you'll never look back.

It is incredible consolation, however, for me to know that even if FF were to ever be released for the 360, it would be extremely inferior in every way. Imagine playing FF on a 360 gamepad...oh you could play it...and get smoke checked. And yet another point for the TF2 being Xboxed rears it's head, in that they wanted a slower paced game so it could be played with 2 small thumb sticks.

Oh, and one more thing Mr. TF2 Valve developer smart guy......if you guys were looking to let players work together more, then what's up with the spawn timer? if your teamate dies while you're in the enemy fortress, then he won't be alive for 10-15 seconds, and may not even make it back to where you are. Instant respawn would seem like it would help the teams flow better...maybe I'm the idiot here?

Suite307 · 08-20-2007, 06:04 AM

Note to you. This is not the TF2 Forums.

tu! · 08-20-2007, 06:08 AM

#1 tfc over 16 players is gay, 8v8 for life!
#2 respawn delay = turtle speed gaming = tf2.
#3 wrong forums, might wanny try the steam tf2 ones.

Norris · 08-20-2007, 06:19 AM

why should valve dumb down the game for the xbox? the platforms aren't playing each other. xbox and pc is on it's own. and while we are at it. TF2 has been developed for PC. The port to xbox and PS3 is just not that hard. the video which has been posted here looks like it was taken from an xbox. no doubt but does that mean that the pc version is going to be so slow? I don't think so.

and yea use on of the thousands TF2 threads. why not post it in the thread with the video which you were writing about? (IBTL)
and no FF won't support 64 players either.. no need anyway

nodnarb · 08-20-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norris

why should valve dumb down the game for the xbox? the platforms aren't playing each other. xbox and pc is on it's own.

Valve said they were making it to where people on all platforms could play together.

GhOsT · 08-20-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodnarb

Valve said they were making it to where people on all platforms could play together.

No, they said it's possible that 360 players could play PC players. However, the descision has been made to keep the platforms segregated.

zSilver_Fox · 08-20-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norris

why should valve dumb down the game for the xbox? the platforms aren't playing each other. xbox and pc is on it's own. and while we are at it. TF2 has been developed for PC. The port to xbox and PS3 is just not that hard. the video which has been posted here looks like it was taken from an xbox. no doubt but does that mean that the pc version is going to be so slow? I don't think so.

and yea use on of the thousands TF2 threads. why not post it in the thread with the video which you were writing about? (IBTL)
and no FF won't support 64 players either.. no need anyway

You can play against players cross platform.

GhOsT · 08-20-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

You can play against players cross platform.

Sigh, you can't with TF2.

Peon · 08-20-2007, 06:21 AM

You mean to tell me that no one here is talking about TF2 at all? That's shocking, cause I swear they had been. Of couse, all of the talk was in comparison to FF, which I did too. In fact the point of my post was to show how much superior FF looked, and that it was not simplified.

There seems to be a potent TF2 vs FF argument going on, and I am more than happy to point out reason why FF will be better. It seems like, with both of them on the verge of release, that it will surely be an online war to see which is better. I mean, Valve released TFC last time, so imagine if all you were going to get on Source was TF2.....yuck.

I'll be thanking God for FF........whenever that'll be.

Norris · 08-20-2007, 06:24 AM

Ok Peon it's up to you. join the FF dev team an make FF great on the xbox. let us know when you achieved something :P

(god forbid it looks shite when someone records a video who never used the xbox controller before!!)

Peon · 08-20-2007, 06:52 AM

Making a vid with a 360 controller, now there's a challenge. I did try out the PC X360 controller for BF2.....that was a mistake. Go figure, the Windows drivers sucked. Logitec X3D was far better for BF2....and everything else probably.

I thought that having the extra stick would help, but I'd rather have a mouse that a second stick. I thought that the triggers would be good for throttle and I was wrong again. Even driving wasn't as effective because you could do just as well with a keyboard/keypad, and still have more options while not having to switch back and forth.

Plus a joystick allows you to use it one-handed most of the time, so you can use keyboard keys also. The N64 stick was also good in that you could free up your other hand momentarily, while not affecting your game.

Paft · 08-20-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tu!

#1 tfc over 16 players is gay, 8v8 for life!
#2 respawn delay = turtle speed gaming = tf2.
#3 wrong forums, might wanny try the steam tf2 ones.

08-20-2007, 05:25 PM

misinformation much?

Teh Hwoling Manz · 08-20-2007, 06:46 PM

lol, it's like console wars

-=bingo-bango=- · 08-21-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tu!

#1 tfc over 16 players is gay, 8v8 for life!
#3 wrong forums, might wanny try the steam tf2 ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peon

It is incredible consolation, however, for me to know that even if FF were to ever be released for the 360, it would be extremely inferior in every way. Imagine playing FF on a 360 gamepad...oh you could play it...and get smoke checked. And yet another point for the TF2 being Xboxed rears it's head, in that they wanted a slower paced game so it could be played with 2 small thumb sticks.

i guess you havent taken a shot at shadowrun. its basically impossible to tell which platform someone is playing on besides looking at their gamertag

punkrockrocks · 08-21-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suite307

Note to you. This is not the TF2 Forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tu!

#3 wrong forums, might wanny try the steam tf2 ones.

General Discussion (4 Viewing)
Discuss anything about Fortress Forever or Fortress mods in general.

barronofhellion · 08-20-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peon

I've seen 64+ player servers in TFC.

HAH ! mofokers told you i was in a 64 player tfc server

08-20-2007, 05:58 AM	#1
Peon Altitude Junkie D&A Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Class/Position: Agressive Medic or Pyro...as long as I can fly baby! Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Team Fortress 2 seems like it was....Xboxed? I saw a video about TF2 recently...I think it may have been the one that Punkrockrocks posted...where one of the developers was, sort of, critiqueing TFC for not facilitating players to do some sort of "power bonding." He said in TFC it wasn't as easy to find a player or group of players and work as a group because there were so many people off doing they're own thing. He went on to say that what he set out to do in TF2 was make it so a smaller group, like 2-3 players, could really play more as a team. In the process the players would form a stronger bond with the player/s you teamed with, for at least that round, he says. So over all I get the impression that this game has been designed for smaller groups of players, which generally isn't a consideration on the PC. I mean what's the max players going to be in FF? I'm betting around 64 at first...unless I'm wrong and this has already been covered somewhere else in the forum. I know I've seen 64+ player servers in TFC. I know there are tons of 64 player BF2 servers, and 32 player CS and CS:S servers. There's BF2142, Q4, and Unreal 64+ servers to boot. It would seem that on the PC you try to get as many players on as possible. But what about the power bonding this guy was talking about? This can't be done on any games with players of that magnitude for sure right? Well I would say he is only minimally right. One thing that helps online multi-player is KNOWING people. First you meet folks by talking to them hopefully, and meeting them optimally. Then you and all of your friends go in to a game and work together every game and play most days. It's also not hard,via the game, to find servers online that you like, and play there regularly. You'll be sure to meet some regular players that way...Whatever. Either way it looks more and more like TF2 has been made for more casual gamers, and not regulars. So I Googled "max players TF2 Xbox 360," knowing full well that many PC games are ported to the 360, and vice versa, but they are rarely better than the PC version. In fact, the 360 looks rather limited in what you can do with a game compared to the PC. While not having as much RAM as your typical PC gamer, the 360 is always limited in the number of players per server. Sure enough, the X360 TF2 multiplayer limit is 16. That's right, only 8 vs 8 max...kinda seems crappy. Given that nades are gone, controls are now more easily workable on a X360 gamepad. So maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I want to be the first one to coin the term by claiming that TF2 has been Xboxed. The definition of which would be what happens to a game that started out for the PC, but was then dumbed down to also work on the more lucrative Xbox audience. I've always been of the opinion that the X360 is too expensive to be so amateur hour. A good PC is expensive, but what you can do with one is immensly greater. Plus it's pretty cheap if you can build it yourself, and sell your used parts to upgrade. A simple logic to work with is imagine taking the cost of an X360 plus one year of Xbox live, and ad that dollar amount in new gaming parts for your PC. Sell your old parts and you'll never look back. It is incredible consolation, however, for me to know that even if FF were to ever be released for the 360, it would be extremely inferior in every way. Imagine playing FF on a 360 gamepad...oh you could play it...and get smoke checked. And yet another point for the TF2 being Xboxed rears it's head, in that they wanted a slower paced game so it could be played with 2 small thumb sticks. Oh, and one more thing Mr. TF2 Valve developer smart guy......if you guys were looking to let players work together more, then what's up with the spawn timer? if your teamate dies while you're in the enemy fortress, then he won't be alive for 10-15 seconds, and may not even make it back to where you are. Instant respawn would seem like it would help the teams flow better...maybe I'm the idiot here?

08-20-2007, 06:04 AM	#2
Suite307 Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Note to you. This is not the TF2 Forums.

08-20-2007, 06:08 AM	#3
tu! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	#1 tfc over 16 players is gay, 8v8 for life! #2 respawn delay = turtle speed gaming = tf2. #3 wrong forums, might wanny try the steam tf2 ones.

08-20-2007, 06:19 AM	#4
Norris The Good German Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Germany Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	why should valve dumb down the game for the xbox? the platforms aren't playing each other. xbox and pc is on it's own. and while we are at it. TF2 has been developed for PC. The port to xbox and PS3 is just not that hard. the video which has been posted here looks like it was taken from an xbox. no doubt but does that mean that the pc version is going to be so slow? I don't think so. and yea use on of the thousands TF2 threads. why not post it in the thread with the video which you were writing about? (IBTL) and no FF won't support 64 players either.. no need anyway

08-20-2007, 06:21 AM	#9
Peon Altitude Junkie D&A Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Class/Position: Agressive Medic or Pyro...as long as I can fly baby! Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	You mean to tell me that no one here is talking about TF2 at all? That's shocking, cause I swear they had been. Of couse, all of the talk was in comparison to FF, which I did too. In fact the point of my post was to show how much superior FF looked, and that it was not simplified. There seems to be a potent TF2 vs FF argument going on, and I am more than happy to point out reason why FF will be better. It seems like, with both of them on the verge of release, that it will surely be an online war to see which is better. I mean, Valve released TFC last time, so imagine if all you were going to get on Source was TF2.....yuck. I'll be thanking God for FF........whenever that'll be.

08-20-2007, 06:24 AM	#10
Norris The Good German Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Germany Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Ok Peon it's up to you. join the FF dev team an make FF great on the xbox. let us know when you achieved something :P (god forbid it looks shite when someone records a video who never used the xbox controller before!!)

08-20-2007, 06:52 AM	#11
Peon Altitude Junkie D&A Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Class/Position: Agressive Medic or Pyro...as long as I can fly baby! Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Making a vid with a 360 controller, now there's a challenge. I did try out the PC X360 controller for BF2.....that was a mistake. Go figure, the Windows drivers sucked. Logitec X3D was far better for BF2....and everything else probably. I thought that having the extra stick would help, but I'd rather have a mouse that a second stick. I thought that the triggers would be good for throttle and I was wrong again. Even driving wasn't as effective because you could do just as well with a keyboard/keypad, and still have more options while not having to switch back and forth. Plus a joystick allows you to use it one-handed most of the time, so you can use keyboard keys also. The N64 stick was also good in that you could free up your other hand momentarily, while not affecting your game.

08-20-2007, 05:25 PM	#13
deadpool Guest Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	misinformation much?

08-20-2007, 06:46 PM	#14
Teh Hwoling Manz Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stan Mikita's Donuts Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	lol, it's like console wars

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