The FF Damage and Speed encyclopedia!

Credge · 02-24-2008, 02:54 PM

EDIT: This information is out dated and will be updated in the near future. Most values have not changed. Those that have are:

Pyro IC damage
BHop speeds
Any Sentry Gun information that may be in this thread.

I'll update this thread in the next week with info.
_________________________________________________

This thread is going to be used as the FF damage encylopedia. I'll be updating this post, as well as posting more information in the thread as I gather data.

This thread will go over the various damages of all weapons on every target at various ranges, how many consecutive shots it takes to kill someone at a various ranges with various weapons, various running/BHop speeds (both flat ground and otherwise) on various maps, average time it can take to reach certain spots on maps with various classes, etc.

The purpose of this thread is to be used as a reference tool for... whatever. This information will probably also be on the Wiki as well.

This thread is not the place for drama. Leave it out. This thread, instead, will be used as a place for everyone to compile any data they have gathered. Any tests done MUST be done three times and the average of the three tests will be the number that will be used.

The formatting of the information I have gathered may change over time.

Contents of this page so far:

Base run speeds of all classes using hud_speedometer 1.
BHop speeds of all classes using hud_speedometer 1.
How damage is dealt by Circuitious.
Damage done to yourself using primary grenades.
Damage done to yourself using secondary grenades.
Damage done to yourself using weaponry.
Early Possible Height Cap

Base Run Speeds!

To get the speedometer, go into your console and type hud_speedometer 1.

All data gathered here was done on ff_dm in the yard. All speeds recorded were from 10 seconds of running without jumping. Only slight turns allow to avoid bumping into walls. The speed boost gained from these turns were not recorded.

Code:

Scout: 399 until turned, which is stayed at 400.
Sniper: 299 until turned, which stayed at 300.
Soldier: 239-240 until turned, which stayed at 240.
Demo: 279-280 until turned, which stayed at 280.
Medic: 320 (did not change when turned).
Heavy: 229-230 until turned, which stayed at 230.
Heavy firing: 44-45 (did not change when turned).
Pyro:299-300 until turned, which stayed at 300.
Spy Uncloaked: 300 (did not change when turned).
Spy Cloaked: 112 (did not change when turned).
Engineer: 299-300 until turned, which stayed at 300.
Civilian: 229-300 until turned, which stayed at 230.

I don't know why some of the classes bounced from the different numbers, however, 1 speed on the speedometer is incredibly slow... probably not even noticable.

To recreate what I experienced, go to ff_dm, type hud_speedometer 1 in your console and then simply run in a straight line without turning. Once you turn, you will maintain the top number of the speed (unless you're an HW firing). I'm sure this is simply a glitch in the speedometer.

BHop speeds!

To get the speedometer, go into your console and type hud_speedometer 1.

All data gathered here was done on ff_dm in the yard. All speeds recorded were taken from an average of circle BHopping (3 times) and then jumping around the level randomly while BHopping (3 times). Both were for 20 seconds each. The reason for the range given is because I recorded the lowest and highest of each run once max speed was gained.

In order to recreate this data, simply BHop in ff_dm with the speedometer on. You'll see that the number jumps when you turn in the air and falls when you land on the ground regardless of if you jump queue or not.

Code:

Scout: 480-500-530
Sniper: 380-400-420
Soldier: 320-340-350
Demo: 360-380-395
Medic: 410-420 (unsure why this one had such a small range)
Heavy: 310-325-330
Pyro: 380-400-420
Spy: 380-400-420
Engineer: 380-400-420
Civ: 310-325 (unsure why this one had such a small range

As you can see, most of the classes have the exact same base run speeds and unassisted BHop speeds.

SOME NOTES!

Each hop in your BHop will have varying speeds. I will explain the above numbers more accurately.

The lowest number represents the, literal, bottom of the jump. This is both the beginning and end of the jump... as in the point where your feet touch the ground. This is, roughly, what your speed will drop to every single jump.

The middle number is the 'average' speed of the jump. It represents, roughly, what BHop speed would be like if the base run speed was set to BHop speeds.

The highest number represents the part of your jump RIGHT before you touch the ground. The number steeply rises from lowest to highest as you jump, and this process remains.

FURTHER NOTES!

BHop speeds will vary depending on map. The only time you'll ever truly achieve the average is when you're on a completely flat map and are not being pushed by anything (explosives, concs, jump pads, etc).

For example, the offense on CTF maps is, 95% of the time, affected by concs, jump pads, explosives, midmap terrain, etc. This all plays a major role in your BHop speed.

To get a rough average for your max BHop speed, go to ff_dm and BHop around the level for a bit using hud_speedometer 1. If you aren't getting the range I presented above, you are doing it wrong.

FURTHER NOTES

There is a difference between queue jump BHop and traditional BHop. The difference is that you can maintain, about 530 BHop as the scout with queue jumping and you pit back down to 480 with every jump using traditional BHop (pressing space right as you land).

I think this is also effected by ping. It seems when I BHop on flat places in servers that I have 50 ping, I can maintain a BHop speed of 500 with traditional BHop. In a created server (0 ping), I shoot down to 480 after each jump.

Much more testing with BHopping than I expected.

The entire BHop section will be changing drastically.

How damage is dealt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

The classes with heavy armor (Soldier, HWGuy) take 20% to health, 80% to armor.

Medium armor (Engineer, Medic, Pyro, Demo) take 40% to health, 60% to armor.

Light armor (Scout, Sniper, Spy) is 70% health, 30% armor.

In other words, damages are the same (Frags do 95), but on heavier classes more of that goes to armor.

With this in mind, if you try weapons on classes with no armor, you'll get their exact damages. From there you can do the math, and 99% of the time it'll be correct.

Self Damage: Primary Grenade!

These tests were hard to do. I will explain the process I went through while doing this.

1. I picked a class.

2. I went to the center of ff_dm.

3. I threw my primary grenade into the very center of mulch mans face.

4. I then stood at various ranges and recorded the data.

I did this three times. After that, I did another three tests with a corner of the map.

1. I picked a class.

2. I went to a corner of ff_dm.

3. I threw my primary grenade into a corner, making sure it stayed in the corner.

4. I then stood at various ranges and recorded the data.

The data was pretty much identical.

The formatting for this will be different than the above as the information may get hard to read with it being cluttered.

Note: The damage willnot be the same between all classes due to each class having different amounts of armor. I also did not factor any fall damage into the equation, however, add in between 1-10 damage on all classes but the scout and spy.

Code:

LEGEND:
Point Blank: On top of the grenade (not hand held).
Close: 2-5 feet away.
Far: 5-7 feet away.


X/Y

X=Health damage
Y=Armor damage

Code:

Scout: No primary Grenades.

Code:

Sniper
Point Blank: 66/28
Close: 49/20
Far: 30/12

Code:

Soldier
Point Blank: 19/77
Close: 15/60
Far: 12/47

Code:

Demo
Point Blank: 38/57
Close: 31/47
Far: 13/19

Code:

Medic
Point Blank: 38/57
Close: 29/43
Far: 14/21

Code:

Heavy
Point Blank: 19/77
Close: 16/61
Far: 13/19

Code:

Pyro
Point Blank: 38/57
Close: 33/49
Far: 13/20

Code:

Engineer:
Point Blank: 48/44 (this is about what it would be like for the scout if he had a primary grenade)
Close: 36/31 (this is about what it would be like for the scout if he had a primary grenade)
Far: 10/9 (this is about what it would be like for the scout if he had a primary grenade)

You will probably notice that there is a rough trend there. The "type" of class is taken in to account when health and armor is determined. Heavier classes (soldier and heavy) take more armor damage than the other classes. I do not know if this is intended or not, however, this is the case.

You should also note that the close and far damages are roughly the same. The reason for the discrepancy is because it's very hard to get the exact same range each time, and the averaging of each got it as close as it could.

Self Damage Secondary Grenade!

I did the same thing with the secondary grenades as I did with the primary grenades.

Code:

LEGEND:
Point Blank: On top of the grenade (not hand held).
Close: 2-5 feet away.
Far: 5-7 feet away.


X/Y

X=Health
Y=Armor

Code:

Scout-Conc
Point Blank: 0
Close: 0
Far: 0

Code:

Sniper - No Grenade.

Code:

Soldier Nail Grenade

Each Nail does roughly 2/8 damage at full health.

Point Blank: Death. The nails kill you before the explosion goes off.
Close: 41/163 with lots of nails (was unable to count)
Far: 19/78 (with three nails).

Code:

Demo - MIRV First Explosion
Point Blank: 48/71
Close: 33/48
Far: 37/55

Code:

Demo - MIRV One Mirvlet
Point Blank: 41/62
Close: 40/60
Far:37/55

Code:

Demo - MIRV Entire
Point Blank: Death.
Close: Death
Far: Varied greatly... depended on how the mirvs popped out.

Code:

Engineer EMP
Point Blank: 21/20
Close: 21/20
Far: 21/20

Code:

Pyro Napalm - Explosion (The range here did not matter... explosion radius was tiny)
Point Blank: 22/32
Close: 22/32
Far: 22/32

Code:

Pyro Napalm - Fire tick rate
Fire per Tick: 3/4 (full health just once, increases as your armor decreases
Tick rate: 2 seconds

Code:

Pyro Napalm - Explosion+fire
47/66

Code:

Pyro Napalm - Four at once
Death at fourth explosion

Code:

Spy - Gas Grenade
Without standing in it: 11 hp damage (ignores armor)
With standing in it: 20 hp damage (ignores armor)
4 gas grenades while standing in it: 21 damage (ignores armor)*

*Note: No visibility while standing in them.

Code:

HW - MIRV Primary
Point Blank: 24/95
Close: 19/74
Far:13/50

Code:

HW - MIRVletes
Point Blank: 4 of them=68/270
Close: 2 of them=32/125
Far: 1 of them=14/54

*

This entire thing was hard to test due to the HW having absolutely no pushability with explosions.

Code:

HW - Entire MIRV
Point Blank: Death
Close: 95/300
Far: 46/183

Self Damage using your Weaponry!

Some of this was hard to test due to either incredibly small blast radii' or bounciness of the weapon. *'s will represent rough results. I'll also only go over classes that have weaponry that can hurt them.

Code:

Soldier - Rocket
Point Blank: 13/54
Close: 11/42
Far: 6/24

Code:

Demo - Green Pipe
Point Blank: 29/73
Close: 13/33
Far: 9/13

Code:

Demo - Blue
Point Blank: 28/41
Close:13/33
Far: 17/26

*

Code:

Pyro - Incendiary Cannon
Point Blank: 28/41
Close: 18/25
Far: 3/4

* *

* The range of the IC is incredibly small... about a 3 foot explosion radius when damaging yourself.

Code:

Engineer - Railgun (Thanks ICB!)
Point Blank: 13/9
Close: 4/3
Far: 3/2
Overcharge:10/10

Weapon damage!

The following is a work in progress. It contains rough estimates of the highest damage possible. The methods used to calculate all damage done is the same with all weapons done. This section will contain how many shots it takes to kill a person at various ranges as well as the weapon damage done at various ranges. With explosions, this range is a rough estimate and is simply there so everyone can get an idea of why those scouts and medics seem to not die.

The method I used to gather this data is simple. I used the 'yardage' lines on ff_dm for varying lengths. The point of reference was the box and then the lines were used for distance. The numbers are exactly the same as all other damage values in the encyclopedia.

P.B. = Point Blank... no damage difference between a shot that touches the feet or a shot that touches the chest.
Medium = Two lines from middle of the box.
Far = First line past mulch circle.
Super far = Wall to wall.

For explosives, this is different and only two values will be present; P.B. and Medium.

P.B. = Point Blank
Medium = About 3 feet away.

Code:

Damage done by soldier rockets:

Scout:

P.B. 60/25
Medium: 25/20

Sniper:

P.B.: 60/25
Medium: 25/20 (I'm rechecking this)

Soldier:

P.B: 17/68
Medium: 13-51

Demo:

P.B: 34/50
Medium: 12/18

Medic:

P.B: 42/50
Medium: 19/18

Heavy:

P.B: 17/68
Medium: 13/51

Pyro:

P.B: 42/50
Medium: 19/18

Spy:

P.B: 42/50
Medium: 19/18

Engy:

Still needs to be tested.

Civilian

P.B: 60/25
Medium: 25/20

The above is pretty bare bones for now. Expect lots of updates over the next few days in this section.

Early Height Cap Estimates!

These numbers will be changed as more data is gathered from this thread:

http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...331#post333331

The point of this section is for map creators who aren't sure of whats possible or are creating a skill map. Enjoy.

The first list will be of jumps.

Code:

Conc Jump (dropped): 544
Conc Jump (HH): 704
Rocket Jump: 448
Incendiary Cannon+Flamethrower: 352
1 Green Pipe: 480
2 Green Pipes: 1218
3 Green Pipes: 2368
4 Green Pipes: 3904
Frag: 704
Railgun: 288
EMP: 352

NOTE: The above info are early trends in the thread I've listed. This may change with time.

Thanks to squeek for starting the thread!

More thanks to Ghostbuster, Maximi, Kubedawg, Bakez, and Mace.

__________________________________________________ _

That's all for now. I'll be updating this post with more information as I get it. Please feel free to add any data you have gathered.

Disclaimer: Please carefully read what it is you are going over. The damages for damaging yourself and others are different. Currently all that has been covered is self-damage.

**squeek.** · 02-25-2008, 12:11 AM

Bhop speeds aren't completely correct. I know for a fact you can reach ~530 as a scout. The "cap" is 480, but you can reach ~530 in the air.

EDIT: But, great work.

Credge · 02-25-2008, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

Bhop speeds aren't completely correct. I know for a fact you can reach ~530 as a scout. The "cap" is 480, but you can reach ~530 in the air.

EDIT: But, great work.

What I recorded was an average. The numbers that popped up most frequently were, roughly, 500 and 480, with 480 appearing when you touched the ground and 500 being at the apex of the jump.

So 530 with the highest and 480 as the lowest when BHopping shows about an average of 500 (or 505).

KubeDawg · 02-25-2008, 12:58 AM

So you listed 2 averages? Like a low average and a high average?

Circuitous · 02-25-2008, 01:17 AM

The classes with heavy armor (Soldier, HWGuy) take 20% to health, 80% to armor.

Medium armor (Engineer, Medic, Pyro, Demo) take 40% to health, 60% to armor.

Light armor (Scout, Sniper, Spy) is 70% health, 30% armor.

In other words, damages are the same (Frags do 95), but on heavier classes more of that goes to armor.

With this in mind, if you try weapons on classes with no armor, you'll get their exact damages. From there you can do the math, and 99% of the time it'll be correct.

Credge · 02-25-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

The classes with heavy armor (Soldier, HWGuy) take 20% to health, 80% to armor.

Medium armor (Engineer, Medic, Pyro, Demo) take 40% to health, 60% to armor.

Light armor (Scout, Sniper, Spy) is 70% health, 30% armor.

In other words, damages are the same (Frags do 95), but on heavier classes more of that goes to armor.

With this in mind, if you try weapons on classes with no armor, you'll get their exact damages. From there you can do the math, and 99% of the time it'll be correct.

Good to know. What you listed is one reason I'm wanting to go over all the damage possible with all weapons at various ranges so we can understand get some good reference stuffs up.

Adding it in!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

So you listed 2 averages? Like a low average and a high average?

Pretty much. I was able to peak up above 500, but the numbers flashed too rapidly for me to even see what the secondary number was.

As you BHop, you'll probably experience 3 different speeds... the lowest, the middle, and the top. All of this will, probably, happen in one hop.

I'll add that in as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyCat

The bhop one is hard to record meaningfully because everyone has a different technique and so without a hard cap like TFC people can reach different levels. I've not gone through thorough testing on each class but for me it is very possible to build up to and maintain 500-530 speeds as scout, and I'm sure that there are people that can maintain it between 510-535 or higher?

There's a hard BHop cap in place and 530 is pretty much it. Because of how the game drags you on the ground after each jump, you will always lose some speed. To see what I mean, pick a map that has a long hall in it (or make your own), BHop in a circle for speed, and then jump in one direction down it while using jump queuing. You'll notice a decrease with each jump, with the first (530) dropping dramatically. This is also testable in ff_dm, but you'll only see the effect of the first few jumps.

You'll eventually come back down to your base run speed given enough distance.

The reason for this is to enforce the hard BHop cap after being pushed at incredible rates. At least, that's what I figure the reason for it is.

SmellyCat · 02-25-2008, 02:03 AM

The bhop one is hard to record meaningfully because everyone has a different technique and so without a hard cap like TFC people can reach different levels. I've not gone through thorough testing on each class but for me it is very possible to build up to and maintain 500-530 speeds as scout, and I'm sure that there are people that can maintain it between 510-535 or higher?

I'm not entirely sure what I'm getting at here, but maybe it's worth noting the definate soft cap for each class (120% max speed) then try to find a couple of other things, one perhaps being a -max- average sustainable bunnyhop speed, which I believe for most classes might be higher than the average bunnyhop readings you have (i.e. once in a settled bunnyhop speed, a collective effort is found to see what speeds CAN be reached). The second, which I think would be rather cool would be to find the maximum "glide" or initial jump speeds that can be reached off your first jump. Thus far my speedometer has showing towards 150% base speed (seeing up to 598 as scout) and I'm fairly sure that people more practiced than I am in FF could pull off some nice speeds.

The rest is all cool because you cannot argue with a grenade or a rocket - it either hurts you or it doesnt!

Maybe I'm thinking a little too much into this or possibly still being lied to by my speedometer (it used to pre-2.0), but I do find it all quite interesting and I like the idea and the effort behind the stuff you've done.

02-25-2008, 12:11 AM	#2
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	Bhop speeds aren't completely correct. I know for a fact you can reach ~530 as a scout. The "cap" is 480, but you can reach ~530 in the air. EDIT: But, great work. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington

02-25-2008, 12:58 AM	#4
KubeDawg Nade Whore Server Owner Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oklahoma Class/Position: Scout/Soldier Gametype: CTF/TDM Affiliations: blunt. Moto Posts Rated Helpful 128 Times	So you listed 2 averages? Like a low average and a high average? __________________ Moto's Funhouse \| Dallas, TX - 74.91.114.247:27015 ff_plunder - Complete

02-25-2008, 01:17 AM	#5
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	The classes with heavy armor (Soldier, HWGuy) take 20% to health, 80% to armor. Medium armor (Engineer, Medic, Pyro, Demo) take 40% to health, 60% to armor. Light armor (Scout, Sniper, Spy) is 70% health, 30% armor. In other words, damages are the same (Frags do 95), but on heavier classes more of that goes to armor. With this in mind, if you try weapons on classes with no armor, you'll get their exact damages. From there you can do the math, and 99% of the time it'll be correct. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

02-25-2008, 02:03 AM	#7
SmellyCat Darknight Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The bhop one is hard to record meaningfully because everyone has a different technique and so without a hard cap like TFC people can reach different levels. I've not gone through thorough testing on each class but for me it is very possible to build up to and maintain 500-530 speeds as scout, and I'm sure that there are people that can maintain it between 510-535 or higher? I'm not entirely sure what I'm getting at here, but maybe it's worth noting the definate soft cap for each class (120% max speed) then try to find a couple of other things, one perhaps being a -max- average sustainable bunnyhop speed, which I believe for most classes might be higher than the average bunnyhop readings you have (i.e. once in a settled bunnyhop speed, a collective effort is found to see what speeds CAN be reached). The second, which I think would be rather cool would be to find the maximum "glide" or initial jump speeds that can be reached off your first jump. Thus far my speedometer has showing towards 150% base speed (seeing up to 598 as scout) and I'm fairly sure that people more practiced than I am in FF could pull off some nice speeds. The rest is all cool because you cannot argue with a grenade or a rocket - it either hurts you or it doesnt! Maybe I'm thinking a little too much into this or possibly still being lied to by my speedometer (it used to pre-2.0), but I do find it all quite interesting and I like the idea and the effort behind the stuff you've done.

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