Identifying spies is too difficult

[lollerskates]

I searched a few times but didn't find anything about the subject.

In FF, you cannot differentiate between enemy spies and friendly players by simply shooting at them, because everyone bleeds the same way. In TFC you could tell the difference because teammates did not bleed or otherwise respond to hits.

When I started playing FF I immediately noticed that teammates were constantly shooting at each other (soldiers usually put one or two rockets into me every time I see them), a lot more than they ever did in TFC. Today I finally realized that friendly players and enemy spies both respond to hits in an identical fashion, making it impossible for you to tell who's who. The only way to be sure is to keep shooting until your target dies (spy) or you're sure they should be dead already (probably friendly). This takes a lot of time and sometimes makes you waste grenades just to be on the safe side. I play as a spy myself so I can identify enemy spies by getting close, but that's not always an option.

Spies are already more poweful than ever thanks to the cloaking and sabotage abilities, but this bleeding thing just makes them ridiculously overpowered. Is it a feature or an oversight? If it's something that's not going to be changed, I'm probably going to stop playing entirely. Spending most of your time chasing after teammates or supposed teammates just isn't fun or interesting.

[Gigiya]

When the player shoots back without revealing a disguise, they aren't a spy.

[Sabre]

Hmm i agree with this i've just been shooting everyone! The problem is less prominent in clan style play servers but i've been having trouble in pubby play thats fer shaw!

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by Gigiya

When the player shoots back without revealing a disguise, they aren't a spy.

They don't usually do that.

Originally Posted by Thansal

Spies grunt when shot, your team does not.

I didn't notice that. It's not always easy to hear things when there are explosions going on everywhere.


I don't think there's any reason not to revert back to the TFC method.

[Gigiya]

Originally Posted by lollerskates

They don't usually do that.

Originally Posted by lollerskates

... I immediately noticed that teammates were constantly shooting at each other ...

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by Gigiya

quotes

If there wasn't a problem I wouldn't have posted this thread. Not everyone shoots back, and performing a spy check on someone is a pain in the ass. Generally speaking FF is just complete chaos, and I always waste a lot of time chasing after real or imagined spies.

[HaZe905]

isn't the spy the one that looks like he's on your team but he doesn't have the thing above his head???? what is the thing above the head?

[Defrag]

The bloody teammates went into the mod because spy checking was so easy in the past. We might remove it, though this just makes spies even more deadly when friendly fire is turned on.

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by Defrag

The bloody teammates went into the mod because spy checking was so easy in the past.

Well yeah, it was. But even without sabotage, cloak and immunity against identification, spies were still very effective if they were in the right hands.

We might remove it, though this just makes spies even more deadly when friendly fire is turned on.

Wouldn't they be less deadly then? If FF is on and everyone bleeds, you can't put three rockets into a suspected spy, and a spy check is useless. If only spies bleed, you can do a spy check with a weak weapon.

[Kanadwen]

Just get to know the current classes on your team, and make a mental note on where they usually are on the battlefield. 11 people, if your playing defense, then there should only be 5 or 6 people near you. For example, lets say your pubin' it up, and your playing defense as soldier inside your front gate on ff_well. There is an Engy, another Solider, two Snipers, and a Demoman, that usually stick on your side of the map quite often, with other team mates as Spies, Scouts, and Medics going O. Watch the recently killed list, if the Demoman was killed, keep an eye out for a Demoman heading into your base. Plus, if FF is on, you just have to be extra careful. And if you get a TK, it's not the end of the world. Just maybe a kick from the admin if it was him, or if its a repetitive thing. It's simple. Yes, people do switch classes often, but it wouldn't hurt to hit TAB and see the new changes. And yes, the scoreboard bug can be quite annoying sometimes, but hell, deal with it. I know you're probably thinking "most. useless. reply. ever.", but just trying to help. =)

[Wile E Coyote]

I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I'm torn on this. Yes in the past technically it was ridiculously easy to check for spies. But yet also they somehow STILL managed to wreak havoc on public servers. It really required some insight on the spies' part to be cunning and devious, figure out what the team was shooting at and what he/she ccould get away with, etc.

Now, well heck, I love the additions to the spy. Sabotage was a brilliant idea. And the instant disguise stealing with a backstab. But on a pub server, the spy is just too easy. Too many n00bs do NOT talk to their teammates let alone have ANY FRIGGIN CLUE why their teammates are shooting at them, what the spy does, etc, etc, etc. What ens up happening is that those who actually KNOW what they are doing end up shooting EVERYONE about 5000 times.

Having said all that, I can also relate that I've been pretty successful at identifying and killing spies in this game. I know what targets spies go for. But then again I was a severely seasoned veteran of TFC and could play TFC darn near blindfolded. There are good arguments both pro and con for teammates bleeding when you shoot them with ff off, but push come to shove I'd have to say............

Remove it.


If someone wants to make things difficult for identifying spies, they can just turn FF on. Just like before.

[Thansal]

Spies grunt when shot, your team does not.

Aside from that....

Yah :P

The other options are:
1) FIRE!
2) use VC to get other people to swing their weapons.