Dark and Moody Maps.....tfc?

[o_fresh]

Just expessing my worry over alot of third party maps ive seen.

They seem to be very moody, dark and monochrome. Some very detailed and the terrain is realistic and bumpy, and lots of things are rounded. The maps themselves are amazing and each screenshop ive seen is a credit to the creator.
However im just not seeing the simple squares and walkways, the flat terrain and the blocked tunnels and jagged rocks, Red and blue colours all over the bases (prolly coz textures are not release yet) however a classic example is the Badlands map where everything is rounded, i think its a brilliant map and a good job.

However, and to conclude with the onset of third parties making classic maps and modles will the TFC style fast pace be lost forever in an onset of moody-rounded-doom-esq style maps? remeber TFC is about precision and speed for alot of people.

I say bring back the rectangles and squares and simplicity in a stylish way like the dev team and some mappers are.

Bring back the cheese! because the cheese is the FLAVOUR!

[o_lord_azazel]

good point ! i was thinking the same when i saw some of these screenshots.. a lot of obstacles that cant be good for bhoping and rampsliding and stuff, cant be good for the game, too cs like !! keep the surrealism at a high level i d say and the arena style... remember it s a game.. it s not reality, so dont make it too earthly and realistic!!!

no offense too all of the talented mappers tho !! i have to pinch myself in the arm every time i see an update.. really breathtaking!!

cya

[Lost]

I think they're taking advantage of the new level of graphics. We've been stuck with the same thing for the past 5 years, why not step it up a little with the new engine. Instead of making a 100ft crappy rock wall to mark the barrier of the map, they can make a 10ft concrete wall and have what looks like a forest behind it.

Besides, from what I've seen, they're putting the decorations in out of the way places where you will never have the need to conc or rjump. They've been mapping for as long as I've played the game, let them do their job, they're better at it than we are!

[o_lord_azazel]

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/viewtopic.php?t=2015

i wouldnt call the positions of those trees " out of the way places"

and if you look at the yards of some of the maps in media section like shutdown2 and bases the floors look really pointy. wont this affect bhopping and sliding ?? i dont know much about the physics let alone programming but as an outsider, that only enjoys the game, i think it would.

plz correct me if i m wrong.. it s just how i observe it..

cya !

[o_fresh]

yeah they are, the maps are amazing, and like Bungies demoman model, there possibly too amazing. TFC isnt about graphics for anyone noone plays tfc for the graphics, its got brilliant gameplay. The reason i play that little free kick game on my phone, or that annoying helicopter game is because they have gameplay, the reason i dont play doom is because, well, it dosent.

To me, the dev team have got it just right, the maps are simple, square and show colour and simplicity. For me some of the maps are too "lovely" not are not built with the ideals of gameplay, TFC isnt dark and gloomy, its pure cheese. Its not BF, its not Doom bumpmapping, its not HL2M mapping and for that reason it will live on past all of these.

The game itself is being build on the ideals of individuals, not a team, if continuity is lost these maps will be forgotten, and hard work wasted.

[o_jared-tm-]

Originally Posted by Lost

I think they're taking advantage of the new level of graphics. We've been stuck with the same thing for the past 5 years, why not step it up a little with the new engine. Instead of making a 100ft crappy rock wall to mark the barrier of the map, they can make a 10ft concrete wall and have what looks like a forest behind it.

Bingo. The map i'm currently working on, i'm trying to keep the TFC fortress-style feel to it but, also letting my creative side run a little wild since we have a new engine to work with.

[o_rush]

Hehe, its hard not to get carried away. Hammer is just so much fun to play with, and the potential is huge.

I guess the thing is to identify the main pathways/channels of play and make sure they are pretty clear. I know with 2chem I have tried to add detail, but put it out of the way of the channels of play - putting the detail in extra rooms that you can see but can't access, or adding detail outside where very little of the play actually occurs. The main areas where people conc, jump, bhop etc should be the same as they always have been.

I reckon that map design must always be a bit hit-and-miss - some maps get popular, some dont. Some have addictive gameplay, some frustrate players. No doubt we will have this same situation with the FF maps. Some will become popular, some will not. It might just take a few tweaks and a re-release to change that tho!

[o_nezumi]

Originally Posted by Fresh

For me some of the maps are too "lovely" not are not built with the ideals of gameplay, TFC isnt dark and gloomy, its pure cheese. Its not BF, its not Doom bumpmapping, its not HL2M mapping and for that reason it will live on past all of these.

It could be. I play TFC because it can be anything. Also, we do have bumpmapping built into the engine. The rock texture here is bump mapped:



I know I'm taking you too literally, but I really don't think we should limit FF in any way by rejecting certain styles.

[o_mexi]

Even a lot of the maps that exist that I've played in 5v5 or 7v7, the map maker chooses to add downward slopes where you need to conc making it nearly impossible, or they throw in a random light in an important hallway that just disturbs conc jumping. I wouldn't mind obstacles in the yard, but don't make weird terrain or random entities that will interfere inside each base.

[o_sh4x]

It depends on what map style you're going for when you make the map. for example, I'm making a map that's gonna be like murderball style but with only 2 teams. In that kind of gameplay, it doesn't matter if there are obstable everywhere. In fact, it's even better because it gives a chance to hide with the ball.

[o_docwolfe]

tbh I prefer dark and moody

[o_fresh]

dark and moody is good, however tfc is a fast paced game, it doesn't rely on aesthetics, TFC is pure game play imo and maps that are dark and dingy will get shunned by the masses.

[o_ernest]

I think that much of what is being said here is valid for this topic too

[o_ghost]

Originally Posted by Fresh

dark and moody is good, however tfc is a fast paced game, it doesn't rely on aesthetics, TFC is pure game play imo and maps that are dark and dingy will get shunned by the masses.

Only because of limitations in the HL engine. Also, if purely gameplay was the driving force then you would still have a large thriving QWTF community. However, as good as the gameplay is when a newer version that looks nicer and is flashier comes out of course people are going to want to play that instead if the gameplay fairly similiar.

There is a good difference in detail going from QWTF to TFC. 2fort5 in QWTF was just a bunch of square rooms basically. TFC's 2fort added detail to many of the areas, like the ceiling in the basement. It's only logical to see an increase in deatail and graphics while moving up to a newer game engine.

I can understand the point with dark maps. However, why even bother to make the game on the Source engine if you are just going to make maps that look almost exactly the same as the ones from TFC?

[o_mj]

Originally Posted by Fresh

Just expessing my worry over alot of third party maps ive seen.

They seem to be very moody, dark and monochrome. Some very detailed and the terrain is realistic and bumpy, and lots of things are rounded. The maps themselves are amazing and each screenshop ive seen is a credit to the creator.
However im just not seeing the simple squares and walkways, the flat terrain and the blocked tunnels and jagged rocks, Red and blue colours all over the bases (prolly coz textures are not release yet) however a classic example is the Badlands map where everything is rounded, i think its a brilliant map and a good job.

However, and to conclude with the onset of third parties making classic maps and modles will the TFC style fast pace be lost forever in an onset of moody-rounded-doom-esq style maps? remeber TFC is about precision and speed for alot of people.

I say bring back the rectangles and squares and simplicity in a stylish way like the dev team and some mappers are.

Bring back the cheese! because the cheese is the FLAVOUR!

go play clan maps, most of them are fugly and simple in design. Most of them play well...

[Circuitous]

...and he wants more of that. Did you not read the post you quoted?

He's tired of everything being moody and dark. Rounded and stylized without real room for movement. Cramped by extras and props.

[o_skorbut]

hmm from the screenshots ive seen theres moody and dark maps as well as light, easy, homely maps like aardvark (which is really awesome in my opinion). tfc had some kind of dark moodyness here and there as well i think...
even if i like the easy style more, i loved more darkish maps like well alot either. i think the variety makes all the difference!

i agree against stuff laying around, but i dont think maps like badlands are less fun for having more hangovers (hehe ^^). i guess it may just require more skill to play them.

well it would be bad in any case if u would stuck or bounce of parts coz u cant reach the high with rocket/conc jumps...
dunno. i see it relaxed. lets see what comes. i guess its hard concider the last point in ur maps if u never had the chance to play your map in the mod itself...


EDIT: hmm i had alook at many of the custom maps. i see what ur takling about now. many seem to be forced realistic (even if looking great) ... hmm. one has to get used to that...

[o_mj]

this is why i like unreal maps.. its a mix of all themes/style.