Defending SGs against mirvs

moosh · 07-12-2010, 12:56 PM

Are there any ways to defend my sentry gun while a mirv explodes near it? I keep hammering the fucker but I get fucked up from the mirv. Is there any way at all? Or is it like 1 mirv and my sg is guaranteed gone.

Bridget · 07-12-2010, 02:14 PM

It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

**Elmo** · 07-12-2010, 05:33 PM

Your post has a point, fine. But will you please stop with this stupid attitude towards the development team you have acquired.

**Crazycarl** · 07-12-2010, 08:47 PM

We give a shit. We give a huge shit.

EDIT: The initial explosion, and each bomb that comes out, is as powerful as a frag (they used to be stronger pre-2.4), so there's no hope if it lands right on top. If some of the bombs are far from your sg, you might be able to repair right in the middle of the explosions and keep it alive. Most likely, you and the gun are going to die if you try it.

Iggy · 07-12-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

The Mirv needs to go to 6 bomblets, rather than just 4. It's a fucking Mirv, it's SUPPOSED to fuck shit up! What do you want, the fucking thing to burst into some balloons with the word "BANG" on them?

Bridget · 07-13-2010, 02:23 AM

Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

hlstriker · 07-13-2010, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

[Frag grenades] should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings.

I too always thought grenades should do reduced damage to buildables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

This is a really interesting idea. Though I think the bomblets should be kept and the damage of the initial explosion + bomblets should be tweaked.

KubeDawg · 07-13-2010, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

That is the gayest idea I've heard yet. It's a frag grenade, it explodes shit human OR robotic.

Bridget · 07-13-2010, 07:52 AM

Yeah bro, because realism is really what's fueling this game.

angrypyro · 07-14-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

MIRVS are given to defensive classes like Demo and HWguy. Usually offensive classes are the ones that need to do the structure destroying.

Bridget · 07-14-2010, 04:18 AM

Everything's good in theory.

MASH · 11-06-2010, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosh

Are there any ways to defend my sentry gun while a mirv explodes near it? I keep hammering the fucker but I get fucked up from the mirv. Is there any way at all? Or is it like 1 mirv and my sg is guaranteed gone.

Looking at this question from a different approach, as an engie, I always play forward a bit as opposed to sitting next to my SG jerking it off. Yeah you may get killed a few more times, but FF aint about K/D ratio, preventing your sg from getting mirved is prolly more important then dieing? Demoman is limited by speed, simply get to him before he gets to your sg.

If you sit between your sg and the demoman, you can weaken, if not kill the demoman before he gets close enough to your sg to drop a mirv. Obviously, this is a different situation when you have three medics also trying to kill ur sg at the same time, but for 1 vs 1's (engie/SG vs demoman, a proactive engie should always win).

When it comes to demoman, emp and space are ur friend

chilledsanity · 11-07-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASH

If you sit between your sg and the demoman, you can weaken, if not kill the demoman before he gets close enough to your sg to drop a mirv. Obviously, this is a different situation when you have three medics also trying to kill ur sg at the same time, but for 1 vs 1's (engie/SG vs demoman, a proactive engie should always win).

Speaking on both sides of the coin, I agree, thought it's a little deceptive. If it's a 1v1 of an engy v. a demoman, the engy will usually kill him and stay alive; but the demoman will also destroy the sg in the process. When I play O demoman and I'm out to destroy sg's, it's almost impossible to stop me from doing so unless there's at least 3 players defending the sg or else a very good sniper. I almost always take the sg out, though I usually die in the process. Alternately, when I play as engy and a demoman has a hard-on for my sg, your best bet is to dismantle your sg and move to a new location where he won't be expecting it. Once he discovers the new location, repeat. Relocating your sg after every time he shows up is a pain in the ass and isn't very fun, but it's about the only reliable way to keep your sg in play (short of having your team help you defend your sg, but how often does that happen).

Demomen can come in pretty rapidly and ones that are out for your sentry usually have their mirv primed ahead of time, so you usually won't have a chance to use an EMP before he's already delivered it. What I've seen happen most of the time is he'll come in, the engineer and the sg start firing on him, but it's usually not enough to push him back and prevent him delivering his mirv, although he'll probably die shortly afterwards.

Omiffeflalawn · 04-17-2011, 03:41 PM

As has been said, are there no police where you live?

Either way, in the situation of a physical altercation, with your training, you should be able to control him without injury, right?
_________________
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FreaK367 · 04-18-2011, 01:00 AM

Personally, I think the SG is fine as it is, if anything, instead of lowering the damage of the mirv, increase the health of the SG, to the highest possible health so that a perfect mirv will still kill it, but ones that aren't quite perfect, the SG can be saved by an Engineer, And there's nothing stopping a fully charged sniper shot killing it. If a sniper can wait 5 seconds to unleash a powerful shot, it should be able to take out a level 3 SG.

If that change was made, it would be harder to kill from rockets, normal pipes, and other weapons. But the Engineer still needs to fear some weapons, hence how a perfect mirv, detpack and sniper shot can still one shot it. But it would have more survivability in general.

Also, I think a soldiers nail grenade should not be able to one shot it when an engineer is hitting it, nail grenades are another one shot SG weapon, if the health was higher, I think it should be high enough for an engineer to save the SG if a nail grenade is right on the other side. Otherwise of course a nail grenade should one shot it if no engineer is around.

It's just nails and a grenade after all...

So I'd be up for an SG health improvement.

Trailer · 05-28-2011, 07:17 PM

If a MIRV class is able to get within throwing range of an sg on a "normal" (normal as in not a/d or quick cap maps) map, there is a problem.

FreaK367 · 05-28-2011, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer

If a MIRV class is able to get within throwing range of an sg on a "normal" (normal as in not a/d or quick cap maps) map, there is a problem.

That's talking about player skill though, of both the attacking force and defending force, and of course where the Engineer has put the SG. 90% of the time it is a Demoman doing the Mirving, and on any map, a good Demoman can make their way around a map and base very fast.

Jump Pads, pipe jumping, grenade jumping, bhopping skill, trimping skill and fighting ability all take hand, and often enough a defense has its hands full with other classes attacking, such as scouts and medics. So it isn't hard to get to a flag room or close to an SG as a Demo.

If you're going to add something to a thread, try to make it productive instead of basically saying anyone who has trouble defending an SG against Mirvs aren't very good.

07-12-2010, 12:56 PM	#1
moosh WhenNailGrenWillOut? Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Gametype: mp_prematch Affiliations: [:)] - Frag Happy, babe\| Posts Rated Helpful 29 Times	Defending SGs against mirvs Are there any ways to defend my sentry gun while a mirv explodes near it? I keep hammering the fucker but I get fucked up from the mirv. Is there any way at all? Or is it like 1 mirv and my sg is guaranteed gone. __________________ [[ ff_hotfudge - bhop_theonlyone ]] "As the the new year approaches I await for it like an case of explosive fecalomania otherwise know as diareha or the massive shits. I am gripping the sides of the toilet as my stomach produces the first hollow thud out of the anus of the year to come." DarkeN_HellspawN

07-12-2010, 05:33 PM	#3
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	Your post has a point, fine. But will you please stop with this stupid attitude towards the development team you have acquired. __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 07-12-2010 at 05:38 PM.

07-12-2010, 08:47 PM	#4
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	We give a shit. We give a huge shit. EDIT: The initial explosion, and each bomb that comes out, is as powerful as a frag (they used to be stronger pre-2.4), so there's no hope if it lands right on top. If some of the bombs are far from your sg, you might be able to repair right in the middle of the explosions and keep it alive. Most likely, you and the gun are going to die if you try it. Last edited by Crazycarl; 07-12-2010 at 08:55 PM.

04-17-2011, 03:41 PM	#14
Omiffeflalawn Join Date: Mar 2011 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Defending SGs against mirvs As has been said, are there no police where you live? Either way, in the situation of a physical altercation, with your training, you should be able to control him without injury, right? _________________ The goose gabbles amid the melodious swans. http://www.chung-sim.com/asus.p4c800-e.deluxe.html

05-28-2011, 07:17 PM	#16
Trailer [Caleb] Beta Tester Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: South Carolina Class/Position: O Scout, D demo and Engy Gametype: Attack / Defend Affiliations: -nZ [LAW] TG M\|M TRISPIRAL (Back in the TFC days) Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	If a MIRV class is able to get within throwing range of an sg on a "normal" (normal as in not a/d or quick cap maps) map, there is a problem. __________________ You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

07-12-2010, 02:14 PM	#2
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

07-13-2010, 02:23 AM	#6
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

07-13-2010, 07:52 AM	#9
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Yeah bro, because realism is really what's fueling this game.

07-14-2010, 04:18 AM	#11
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Everything's good in theory.

04-18-2011, 01:00 AM	#15
FreaK367 Everyones favorite FreaK D&A Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: England Class/Position: Scout, Engineer and Sniper Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 17 Times	Personally, I think the SG is fine as it is, if anything, instead of lowering the damage of the mirv, increase the health of the SG, to the highest possible health so that a perfect mirv will still kill it, but ones that aren't quite perfect, the SG can be saved by an Engineer, And there's nothing stopping a fully charged sniper shot killing it. If a sniper can wait 5 seconds to unleash a powerful shot, it should be able to take out a level 3 SG. If that change was made, it would be harder to kill from rockets, normal pipes, and other weapons. But the Engineer still needs to fear some weapons, hence how a perfect mirv, detpack and sniper shot can still one shot it. But it would have more survivability in general. Also, I think a soldiers nail grenade should not be able to one shot it when an engineer is hitting it, nail grenades are another one shot SG weapon, if the health was higher, I think it should be high enough for an engineer to save the SG if a nail grenade is right on the other side. Otherwise of course a nail grenade should one shot it if no engineer is around. It's just nails and a grenade after all... So I'd be up for an SG health improvement.

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