Half-Life 2.net Review

SoBe Green · 09-25-2007, 03:57 AM

http://www.halflife2.net/2007/09/20/...ver-v1-review/

Quote:

Were there no competing Team Fortress games I would slap a 9/10 sticker on this mod and move on, but in the current context that wouldn’t be particularly helpful. Instead, I’ll say this. If you’ve played TFC and you like bunnyhopping and grenade spamming, try Fortress Forever out. See if you like it. You might be pleasantly surprised, but don’t expect to delete good ol’ TFC from your Steam list just yet. On the other hand, if you’re new to the world of Team Fortress, just buy the Orange Box. Having played in the beta I can tell you that Team Fortress 2 is a bloody brilliant game, and as long as you’re not interested in training in the ancient oriental art of jumping like a rabbit (I’m sure most people reading this review don’t even know what I mean by that), then TF2 is a far superior game to both Team Fortress Classic and Fortress Forever.

Hopefully there isn't any flaming for this. Sadly a lot of this review is true. This isn't me saying "FF sucks" or "TF2 is better!" its about the future of the TF community in general. And before any of you go blasting on me about hating FF, know that I was here back when the message boards had less than 100 registered users and posted for over a year before taking a break. Hopefully instead of locking this we can have a mature discussion. FF is a great game period and I love every second I play in it but this review brings in a lot of fine points about FF that will need to be addressed in the future. Its not a competition about two games but how one of the two can represent what we know as TF.

Camphlobactor · 09-25-2007, 04:19 AM

Most of the criticisms of FF l've seen are usually not valid, but this review really makes a good point regarding the graphics. As much as l hate to say it, l think it's the first weak point of the mod. There are times l have confused enemies and friends and confused roles from a distance. In the heat of battle it can really mess up your priority in targets.

l know we shouldn't compare the two, but TF2 has such great art direction that it's worth mentioning. In this video we can see the huge amount of effort that went into each character designed to be easily recognizable from anywhere. It's the cartoonish nature that allows each class to be exaggerated to a degree that makes them not only look good, but functional too. The problem with FF is finding a design that will stay true to the TF series, but still unique and distinct. It's hard to tell which way the devs were going with the art, but l'm short on ideas.

summit · 09-25-2007, 06:52 AM

I found it harder to differentiate between people on my team than classes, though I guess that was tough too.

I think though that this game really needs to be reviewed as a niche mod. Whether or not it's mainstream I really can't say yet, though I can definitely see the devs have tried to make it more mainstream. I guess the biggest problem is targeting it at a certain audience. Right now, it exists to appease TFC players (which is *not* a bad thing). However, this fact means that, to a wider audience, there's quite a lot that's unappealing.

Does that mean a more general audience can't like it? No - I was never huge on TFC (I didn't hate it, but never played it avidly) and I enjoyed FF. It seems though that there might be just a little too much catered towards TFC players. I know that sounds weird, but it feels like there hasn't been enough done to push itself through as a mod of its own. However, I think the next few updates for FF could hold great potential.

IvaQuaL · 09-25-2007, 09:04 AM

I think the review is extremely poor, and I'm a bit surprised this was posted on the front page.

Mentioning TF2 was of course unavoidable, but why do this repeatedly ? Wasn't this a FF review ? First sign that something's wrong..

"The former is firmly rooted in the past, whilst the latter looks to the future."
This sentence made me jump a little. It just shows right from the bat that the review is biased and relies on prejudice. TF2 just has to be better since it's newer, right ? What ?

One of the staples of FF, movement control, something pretty unique as far as mods go (apart from TF2, all TF mods include this) isn't visited or tried to explain, but just quickly mentioned at the end in a unambiguously mocking manner. ("lol jumping rabbits teehee. oh by the way i won't ever try to explain what it's about !")

The reviewer states that FF is all in all a good modification, but never actually explains why. There isn't a single screenshot, which clearly shows not a lot of effort was put into the review. For crying out loud, he states clearly to avoid FF and just play TF2 if you haven't played TFC before ? What ? One can't help wondering about this. Why is that ? No explanation will be given.

I'd be surprised if the reviewer spent more than a day playing Fortress Forever, let alone a few hours. The review is seriously flawed and a disgrace that it was put on a major site such as HL2.net.

summit · 09-25-2007, 09:28 AM

Well he never said TF2 was better, but the comment regarding the direction the mods were based on isn't entirely untrue. The designs both go their separate ways in this sense, but I think there could have been more care expressing this. I think he's merely commenting on how each team approached the game.

FF|Skyrider · 09-25-2007, 09:43 AM

I have to agree, the review is poor.

^ That image above, makes it even worse.

TF2 Fan boy I see.

Beavis · 09-26-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvaQuaL

"The former is firmly rooted in the past, whilst the latter looks to the future."
This sentence made me jump a little. It just shows right from the bat that the review is biased and relies on prejudice. TF2 just has to be better since it's newer, right ? What ?

The whole Halflife2.net site is full of Valve suck ups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Fact
FF doesn't have a theme. There aren't many maps that even somewhat resemble each other so the newer players at each turn are just going to feel more and more lost. The lack of visual signs or directions on each map adds to this. This isn't bashing FF its way too early to say all is lost.

So true!

Nuk3m · 09-25-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

http://www.halflife2.net/2007/09/20/...ver-v1-review/

Hopefully there isn't any flaming for this. Sadly a lot of this review is true. This isn't me saying "FF sucks" or "TF2 is better!" its about the future of the TF community in general. And before any of you go blasting on me about hating FF, know that I was here back when the message boards had less than 100 registered users and posted for over a year before taking a break. Hopefully instead of locking this we can have a mature discussion. FF is a great game period and I love every second I play in it but this review brings in a lot of fine points about FF that will need to be addressed in the future. Its not a competition about two games but how one of the two can represent what we know as TF.

that was such a biased review.

rizzo · 09-25-2007, 05:04 PM

That review has some good points

IvaQuaL · 09-25-2007, 05:04 PM

It's not even a review, not even a preview, it's a piece of trash that should have never seen the light of day, let alone the front page of a major website.

I don't care about this TF2 >< FF rivality that some people like to push, it's not my intention to whiteknight either of them. The only thing that I mind is that piece of text harming the community (not considering it does harm to the website's credibility itself).

Defrag · 09-25-2007, 05:09 PM

The main thing I found annoying was that they picked our worst model by a mile for the header :P

Dr.Uudge · 09-25-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defrag

The main thing I found annoying was that they picked our worst model by a mile for the header :P

http://planethalflife.gamespy.com/Vi...s.Detail&id=38

Here is another review by a different perspective.

both reviews can be found on wiki it seems.

I went onto the half-life2.net forums and it's no surprise they will pick the worst of FF to represent it. they have a section called "mods" which have like 6 or 7 posts for ff, and a whole section devoted to TF2.

This planethalflife review is i think more fair, because he points out, that it's FF's first release, and has room to grow.

And he doesn't do a shameless plugin by saying "if you're new to the TF world, buy TF2." Eh... hello, TF2 play style with it's "slower tactical teamplay" is the diametric opposite of tf's fight or flight quick decision options. Newcomers going to TF2 will most definately keep them away from FF, due to the very opposite directions both of the devs took.

As for the attack on lack of theme(not from you Sobe, but from the reviewer)...that's just a low blow. Why is that reviewer trying to convince the public that a game needs a theme to be enjoyable. I don't remember playing unreal and going, "wow, this game has potential, but the lack of theme sure takes away from the gameplay."

I mean, if its supposed to be a gimick to attract new comers, i suppose that themes could be employed. But thats such a superficial way of advertising the aspects of a game, especially when it deals with physics and mechanics of the game itself. And personally, i dont' think there's any visual gimick that FF could employ to attract newcomers over TF2, especially since TF2 uses several lighting/shading algorithms to give the impressionistic effect, according to the TF2 dev team, which they said took a while(which is significant considering they were paid, and had many coders) to develop. And even currently, i think one of the FF dev guys mentioned that there's no animator right now.

In conclusion, i wish reviewers would get their nose out of valve's butt, and actually play/test/lan-match/read responses from the mod dev team, before they make a mockery of what's supposed to be a "review," and not "my opinion which is worth 100x more than a fair review."

SoBe Green · 09-25-2007, 06:57 PM

I agree the review is heavily biased but also find plenty of people here and on other websites just as biased the other way. Some people don't know how to be neutral so I just ignore it. There are plenty of reviews praising FF no use in so many people here losing their head over one bad review. The best part of FF and TF2 existing is that both sides have to continue to raise the bar and push for great things which is something the TF community has not had in a very long time. I don't see either game becoming "stale" or "ignored" in awhile and that makes me happy and should make everybody else happy too. Thanks to just about everybody here (with exceptions) for being able to talk about this without exploding because your favorite game got a bad review.

Credge · 09-26-2007, 03:52 AM

I'd say the review is pretty accurate. FF is essentially TFC with easier BHOP, some changes, and some new additions including revamped graphics.

Thing is, I much prefer FF over TFC simply because of the ragdoll physics and the plethora of changes to core classes like the soldier and HW. It makes it much more fun in a pub environment and the changes to classes like the spy and pyro will probably make league play much different and team oriented than the original was.

As for TF2, I haven't played it yet so I can't say how it is. However, it does seem very team oriented and I'll leave my opinion of it at that.

09-25-2007, 09:04 AM	#4
IvaQuaL Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think the review is extremely poor, and I'm a bit surprised this was posted on the front page. Mentioning TF2 was of course unavoidable, but why do this repeatedly ? Wasn't this a FF review ? First sign that something's wrong.. "The former is firmly rooted in the past, whilst the latter looks to the future." This sentence made me jump a little. It just shows right from the bat that the review is biased and relies on prejudice. TF2 just has to be better since it's newer, right ? What ? One of the staples of FF, movement control, something pretty unique as far as mods go (apart from TF2, all TF mods include this) isn't visited or tried to explain, but just quickly mentioned at the end in a unambiguously mocking manner. ("lol jumping rabbits teehee. oh by the way i won't ever try to explain what it's about !") The reviewer states that FF is all in all a good modification, but never actually explains why. There isn't a single screenshot, which clearly shows not a lot of effort was put into the review. For crying out loud, he states clearly to avoid FF and just play TF2 if you haven't played TFC before ? What ? One can't help wondering about this. Why is that ? No explanation will be given. I'd be surprised if the reviewer spent more than a day playing Fortress Forever, let alone a few hours. The review is seriously flawed and a disgrace that it was put on a major site such as HL2.net. Last edited by IvaQuaL; 09-25-2007 at 09:11 AM.

09-25-2007, 05:09 PM	#11
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The main thing I found annoying was that they picked our worst model by a mile for the header :P __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot.

09-25-2007, 04:19 AM	#2
Camphlobactor Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Most of the criticisms of FF l've seen are usually not valid, but this review really makes a good point regarding the graphics. As much as l hate to say it, l think it's the first weak point of the mod. There are times l have confused enemies and friends and confused roles from a distance. In the heat of battle it can really mess up your priority in targets. l know we shouldn't compare the two, but TF2 has such great art direction that it's worth mentioning. In this video we can see the huge amount of effort that went into each character designed to be easily recognizable from anywhere. It's the cartoonish nature that allows each class to be exaggerated to a degree that makes them not only look good, but functional too. The problem with FF is finding a design that will stay true to the TF series, but still unique and distinct. It's hard to tell which way the devs were going with the art, but l'm short on ideas.

09-25-2007, 06:52 AM	#3
summit Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I found it harder to differentiate between people on my team than classes, though I guess that was tough too. I think though that this game really needs to be reviewed as a niche mod. Whether or not it's mainstream I really can't say yet, though I can definitely see the devs have tried to make it more mainstream. I guess the biggest problem is targeting it at a certain audience. Right now, it exists to appease TFC players (which is not a bad thing). However, this fact means that, to a wider audience, there's quite a lot that's unappealing. Does that mean a more general audience can't like it? No - I was never huge on TFC (I didn't hate it, but never played it avidly) and I enjoyed FF. It seems though that there might be just a little too much catered towards TFC players. I know that sounds weird, but it feels like there hasn't been enough done to push itself through as a mod of its own. However, I think the next few updates for FF could hold great potential.

09-25-2007, 09:28 AM	#5
summit Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well he never said TF2 was better, but the comment regarding the direction the mods were based on isn't entirely untrue. The designs both go their separate ways in this sense, but I think there could have been more care expressing this. I think he's merely commenting on how each team approached the game.

09-25-2007, 09:43 AM	#6
FF\|Skyrider HL2Files Site Manager Join Date: May 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I have to agree, the review is poor. ^ That image above, makes it even worse. TF2 Fan boy I see.

09-25-2007, 05:04 PM	#9
rizzo Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	That review has some good points

09-25-2007, 06:57 PM	#13
SoBe Green SoBe Yourself Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Russellville, AR Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I agree the review is heavily biased but also find plenty of people here and on other websites just as biased the other way. Some people don't know how to be neutral so I just ignore it. There are plenty of reviews praising FF no use in so many people here losing their head over one bad review. The best part of FF and TF2 existing is that both sides have to continue to raise the bar and push for great things which is something the TF community has not had in a very long time. I don't see either game becoming "stale" or "ignored" in awhile and that makes me happy and should make everybody else happy too. Thanks to just about everybody here (with exceptions) for being able to talk about this without exploding because your favorite game got a bad review.

09-26-2007, 03:52 AM	#14
Credge FF Loremaster Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times	I'd say the review is pretty accurate. FF is essentially TFC with easier BHOP, some changes, and some new additions including revamped graphics. Thing is, I much prefer FF over TFC simply because of the ragdoll physics and the plethora of changes to core classes like the soldier and HW. It makes it much more fun in a pub environment and the changes to classes like the spy and pyro will probably make league play much different and team oriented than the original was. As for TF2, I haven't played it yet so I can't say how it is. However, it does seem very team oriented and I'll leave my opinion of it at that.

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