4v4 league? Any interest?

[Credge]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Ok, so this new 4v4/2v2 league will be the FF.PL (FF.Pickup League), and Vinny and I will be the head admins. Expect a website sometime in the future.

If you guys have any suggestions, feel free to post 'em up (caesiums have been noted).

Not sure how to handle the whole EU situation. Perhaps some sort of opt-in type dealie, but it seems like it's going to get complicated. Will have to talk it over with Vinny.

EDIT: http://www.ffpickup.com/league/

And there you have it.

__________________________________________________ ______

Vinny spoke about this in #ff.pickup and I support it. In fact, I support it so much that I'm making this thread just to see if there is any interest and to discuss the pros and cons of it. While the exact format was not talked about (4v4 OVD or 4v4 full game) I do believe that 4v4 OVD was being discussed, so lets talk about it.

Pros: Fewer players required than 5v. Represents how FF is best played without the insane 14-18 player requirement. Even number of O and D means that both have an even number of players. More action. Possibility of more clans or clans with multiple squads.

Cons: Team that plays offense second has an advantage (might be solved with 4 15 minute rounds, where one team goes first and last while the other team plays twice in a row). Lower number of players means less players play per game.

If you can think of any other pros or cons please say what they are. Now here is a touchy subject.

In this conversation, cash dough money was brought up. A prize and a fee. What the prize and fee for entering would be, dunno. I'm not going to give my opinion on this. I want to see your opinions. Would you play if there was a chance to win some cash? Would you put some cash on the table to enter said league? Do you think something like this would draw in some more players? Are you opposed to the idea of a fee to enter a league? Don't like the idea of a prize? Just think the whole idea for a 4v league is stupid?

Please note: This is just a discussion. Keep e-peens, egos, and other internet related things out of it. Keep things civil and keep talk about who is better than who out this. No insults, just discussion.

So lets hear it.

Another note: Discussion of a prize and fee does not mean that either will be included.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Pretty sure that a pay to play league wouldn't work very well in a community this small. I know I wouldn't play in it.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

Pretty sure that a pay to play league wouldn't work very well in a community this small. I know I wouldn't play in it.

I think the idea was that it would draw people in. Again, not going to give my opinion on it but I do want to see what others think and say.

[teh_rape]

I know I would not take part in it.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by teh_rape

I know I would not take part in it.

Any reason why? Just because I included prizes and fees in to the discussion does not mean that's the point of the league.

Maybe I should make that more clear.

[MonoXideAtWork]

I would love to play 4v4. I don't think I would ever pay for a league that offers prizes.

That being said... I would pay an entrance fee at a tournament for this game!!!

[teh_rape]

Originally Posted by Credge

Any reason why? Just because I included prizes and fees in to the discussion does not mean that's the point of the league.

Maybe I should make that more clear.

I play in UGC and soon to be TFL.. that's enough FF time for me. Along with the pay-to-play deal..
I can't see myself joining another league any time soon. Plus what skanky said, I like playing for fun.

[tml]

Originally Posted by Credge

Cons: Team that plays offense second has an advantage

you know i don't agree with this at all. You brought it up a while ago, i just want to see what other people think. It doesn't make sense to me. Okay if you are playing offense second you know exactly how many times you have to cap to win. Guess what? The defence knows exactly how many flags they cant let out. It would just come down to what your 4v4 team is better at under pressure: D or O

[Credge]

Originally Posted by tml

you know i don't agree with this at all. You brought it up a while ago, i just want to see what other people think. It doesn't make sense to me. Okay if you are playing offense second you know exactly how many times you have to cap to win. Guess what? The defence knows exactly how many flags they cant let out. It would just come down to what your 4v4 team is better at under pressure: D or O

It's no different than the Olympics or golf. People that do better in the trials get to go later on in the day. They are rewarded with the knowledge of what they have to beat.

This doesn't matter if you count each round as a win instead of taking each as a score. It's also not a major con as you're playing multiple rounds (4, where you switch off who goes first). There is an advantage, just like there is an advantage to being on the red team in CTF. 4v eliminates one set of problems but brings in another. One side/person will always have a natural advantage if everyone does not go at the same time (like any running sport, as an example). It's just how the human brain works. If robots were playing, there wouldn't be any advantage.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

Originally Posted by Credge

There is an advantage, just like there is an advantage to being on the red team in CTF.

uhh, wut?

[Jester]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...570918,00.html
That's only the first result for "psychology behind red winning", but that should answer your question Skanky.

[caesium]

i just had an idea for making CTF ovd a lot more interesting... i haven't thought it through that much tbh, it just came to me so figured i'd post it up here.

it's inspired by the domination/hq modes from other games, could all be done by modifying the lua file of any CTF map, and although it's aimed at standard ovd numbers it would probably work with just about any number of players. here's how it works:

- match starts just as a normal full CTF match would (both teams can attack and defend).
- whenever a team caps: that team becomes the defenders and the other team becomes the attackers; the new attacking team's flag is completely disabled/removed, and the new defending team's flag reappears in it's normal starting place.
- there are no team points for capping (well you could have some if you want, it makes little difference really).
- teams are rewarded x points per second that they are the defenders.

btw i was originally thinking you'd need a setup time after each cap, but then i realised it's far more interesting without that because, assuming the other team isn't about to cap also, you can delay capping while your team gets setup on defence if you think it's worth it (at the cost of giving the other team more points ofc!).

sounds more complex than i think it would be, and i recon it'd be great fun

[tml]

Originally Posted by Credge

It's no different than the Olympics or golf.

yea it is

Originally Posted by Credge

One side/person will always have a natural advantage if everyone does not go at the same time (like any running sport, as an example). It's just how the human brain works.

In running or golf they know what they have to beat and they are not up against any defence. i can see how it would be beneficial to go last here because the last guy was the only guy in the competition to know what he must beat. It's different in FF because you're facing the defence and everyone in the server knows what has to be done to win

[SmellyCat]

Indeed, if it's the last cap that the defence need to stop there's a good chance they'll follow it out into the Yard and camp it as long as absolutely possible to try to run the time down and hope they can do this without a rebound. Although I guess that's immaterial at that point...

It's actually quite difficult to do something 'extra' as offence on top of normal, surely you'd be trying as hard as you can to get caps out anyway?

[Credge]

Originally Posted by SmellyCat

Indeed, if it's the last cap that the defence need to stop there's a good chance they'll follow it out into the Yard and camp it as long as absolutely possible to try to run the time down and hope they can do this without a rebound. Although I guess that's immaterial at that point...

It's actually quite difficult to do something 'extra' as offence on top of normal, surely you'd be trying as hard as you can to get caps out anyway?

This is it.