Improving CTF gameplay

[MightyLotu]

Alright, here's a few suggestions to make CTF better in FF.

1. When the Red/Blue team gets a lead in flagcaps, have the announcer say Red/Blue team has taken the lead. At the end of the match, have the announcer say which team has won the match. (Red/Blue team has the won the match. I guess that's UT style)
(btw, the announcer voice is boring, so a second announcer voice should be saying these lines.. or as an alternative make them text only)

2. Visual reward for capturing the flag. Any cool visual effect worth looking at.
Example: launch a bunch of fireworks across the capture point.

3. The flag should have a visual effect around it, like a glowing circle on the ground or something which attracts the eye. (Why? Better visibility, people want to grab it, it doesn’t look like a stupid, boring flag)

4. The fortress points system is not rewarding enough. There should be a separate "Captured flags" boxthingy in the scoreboard.

5. Flag assists. Give the second person that touched the flag half of the points which the real capper gets. Give the third person half of what the second person gets.
(Same as suggestion 4, possibly add "Flag assists" in the scoreboard.)

Also, for the defensive players, give more points for killing a flag carrier if that's not in already.

6. Capture sounds. A better sounding and longer capture sound would be nice. A second more evil sounding capture sound plays when the enemy team captures the flag.

7. A teamcolored mark (like the arrow that shows where the capture points are) for the flags. So both teams always know where the flags are. This way people won't have to ask where the flag is all the time and encourage them to go after/defend it. This might be a radical change.. but I think it will be for the better (for all gametypes)

When I play offense in FF and cap flags.. I don't feel rewarded at all.. it's more like a "meh, I guess I'll go DM a bit" feeling. Rewarding players for teamwork and stuff is key in to making CTF more fun.

[Titan`]

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

2. Visual reward for capturing the flag. Any cool visual effect worth looking at.
Example: launch a bunch of fireworks across the capture point.

6. Capture sounds. A better sounding and longer capture sound would be nice. A second more evil sounding capture sound plays when the enemy team captures the flag.

Those sound appealing...I'm sure you could decorate your flag with a custom flag model, but a standardized ornate flag would be nice

[~kev~]

I think CTF game play is fine the way it is.

As for fireworks, I',ll wait until new years or 4th of july. I have seen quakeworld team fortress modifications like that. They are cool the first couple of times, but get old real quick. I will capture the flag for points, not to see something flash on my screen.


5. Flag assists. - this I agree with. And if 3 or 4 people touch the flag, then all of them get a percentage of the points.

[MightyLotu]

you like it as it is because you probably only play D and yard DM

fireworks was just an example.. it could be anything.. shoot electricity out of the capture point with teamcolored lightbeams or whatever, a dustbowl-style explosion effect etc..

you could say ff 1.0 was fine as it was, while it needed improvements
the game needs to evolve more because right now things aren't looking too good (lack of players)

[xks]

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

Alright, here's a few suggestions to make CTF better in FF.

1. When the Red/Blue team gets a lead in flagcaps, have the announcer say Red/Blue team has taken the lead. At the end of the match, have the announcer say which team has won the match. (Red/Blue team has the won the match. I guess that's UT style)
(btw, the announcer voice is boring, so a second announcer voice should be saying these lines.. or as an alternative make them text only)

2. Visual reward for capturing the flag. Any cool visual effect worth looking at.
Example: launch a bunch of fireworks across the capture point.

3. The flag should have a visual effect around it, like a glowing circle on the ground or something which attracts the eye. (Why? Better visibility, people want to grab it, it doesn’t look like a stupid, boring flag)

4. The fortress points system is not rewarding enough. There should be a separate "Captured flags" boxthingy in the scoreboard.

5. Flag assists. Give the second person that touched the flag half of the points which the real capper gets. Give the third person half of what the second person gets.
(Same as suggestion 4, possibly add "Flag assists" in the scoreboard.)

Also, for the defensive players, give more points for killing a flag carrier if that's not in already.

6. Capture sounds. A better sounding and longer capture sound would be nice. A second more evil sounding capture sound plays when the enemy team captures the flag.

7. A teamcolored mark (like the arrow that shows where the capture points are) for the flags. So both teams always know where the flags are. This way people won't have to ask where the flag is all the time and encourage them to go after/defend it. This might be a radical change.. but I think it will be for the better (for all gametypes)

When I play offense in FF and cap flags.. I don't feel rewarded at all.. it's more like a "meh, I guess I'll go DM a bit" feeling. Rewarding players for teamwork and stuff is key in to making CTF more fun.

#1 is the same in Quake as well, it announces which team won at the end in TDM since it's about the team rather than individual frags. Text announcements saying which team has taken the lead is ok, but I wouldn't want vocal announcements of that particularly.

#2 doesn't bother me much, it might encourage some people but overall I think there are more important things to be getting on with.

#3 I'm torn on this idea because I like the sound of it, however at the same time the flag is special enough already, it's a coloured glowing flag and there are only two of them on the map. The flag should stay out enough already and if it doesn't suggestion #7 should take care of it being visible enough.

#4 We don't need separate points scores, the fortress points system is a good idea and although it could be reworked I think it works fine as it is right now.

#5 Flag assists is a good idea from a stat and fortress points perspective. It should be simple though, touching the flag gives say 500 fortress points if capping is giving 1000, or capping could even be raised a little. Say 1200 for a cap and 400 for a touch.

#6 I like the capture sounds as they are, they get the point accross and if you change them you run the risk of adding something that whilst extravagant, isn't actually nice to listen to 20 times an hour.

#7 I am torn on the idea of an objective based flag icon showing through the walls as the capture point does when you hold the flag itself. It is both good and bad in different ways. If implemented it should only be visible to one team and only when it's been carried away from the flag room and not in anyones hands. I find it hard to believe they haven't beta tested something like this already though.

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

Alright, here's a few suggestions to make CTF better in FF.

1. When the Red/Blue team gets a lead in flagcaps, have the announcer say Red/Blue team has taken the lead. At the end of the match, have the announcer say which team has won the match. (Red/Blue team has the won the match. I guess that's UT style)
(btw, the announcer voice is boring, so a second announcer voice should be saying these lines.. or as an alternative make them text only)

Have you been playing Quake Live, too?

"Your team is tied for the lead!"

"Your team has taken the lead!"

"Your team has lost the lead!"

Three sentences that are very useful. I like. And of course it can be turned on and off in Fortress Options.

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

2. Visual reward for capturing the flag. Any cool visual effect worth looking at.
Example: launch a bunch of fireworks across the capture point.

An excuse to make use of OB's fancy particle system? Sure, why the Hell not!

We can tie something to the capture point entity (like the Objective Icon is now) so we don't have to go nuts retrofitting maps.

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

3. The flag should have a visual effect around it, like a glowing circle on the ground or something which attracts the eye. (Why? Better visibility, people want to grab it, it doesn’t look like a stupid, boring flag)

I concur.

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

4. The fortress points system is not rewarding enough. There should be a separate "Captured flags" boxthingy in the scoreboard.

This I'm not so sure about. Not all of FF centers are capturing flags. FP can use some work, but what in this game doesn't need work?

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

5. Flag assists. Give the second person that touched the flag half of the points which the real capper gets. Give the third person half of what the second person gets.
(Same as suggestion 4, possibly add "Flag assists" in the scoreboard.)

We've actually debated this kinda stuff at length. It's hard to figure it out.

How do you deal the points? People who touched it? Then it could just get tossed around for people to whore FP.

Distance covered? Run around in circles with the flag.

Time held? Just stand there holding it.

This one's a pickle that we haven't quite salted yet.

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

Also, for the defensive players, give more points for killing a flag carrier if that's not in already.

Agree, just like Quake3/Quake Live. "DEFENSE!"

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

6. Capture sounds. A better sounding and longer capture sound would be nice. A second more evil sounding capture sound plays when the enemy team captures the flag.

Longer could be a bit annoying.

One thing we want to do in the future is really enhance the customization of FF beyond "replace sound.wav with your own". Like, a drop-down menu kind of thing for fucking everything. Models, sounds, the menu background, etc. The more customizable the better.

Replacing files is so 1998.

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

7. A teamcolored mark (like the arrow that shows where the capture points are) for the flags. So both teams always know where the flags are. This way people won't have to ask where the flag is all the time and encourage them to go after/defend it. This might be a radical change.. but I think it will be for the better (for all gametypes)

It's been debated about whether or not we should allow people to see the flag's position at all times.

The best compromise would probably be to give flags their own icon and have it on at all times for pubs, but have a server-side variable where it can be shut off for league play, pickups, etc. if the choose to do so.

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

When I play offense in FF and cap flags.. I don't feel rewarded at all.. it's more like a "meh, I guess I'll go DM a bit" feeling. Rewarding players for teamwork and stuff is key in to making CTF more fun.

Yes, that's part of our mission... but we're really shorthanded on staff. Hm... this gives me an idea for a dev journal...

[battery]

You heard it before, and I am gonna repeat it here again. FF is not TF2. Most of the points you listed are already implemented in TF2. FF was designed to be the opposite of TF2. Rewards should be in form of congrats from teammates and opponents, not some goofy eye-candies.
________
Demerol rehab forums

[MightyLotu]

Originally Posted by battery

Rewards should be in form of congrats from teammates and opponents, not some goofy eye-candies.

well one more thing.. this is source not golden source
if you don't want to see eye-candy stuff why do you even play source games then.. might as well play QTF.. you know what i mean?

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by battery

You heard it before, and I am gonna repeat it here again. FF is not TF2.

True.

Originally Posted by battery

Most of the points you listed are already implemented in TF2.

True.

Originally Posted by battery

FF was designed to be the opposite of TF2.

False. FF's design process was started before anyone knew anything about the current iteration of TF2, and we wouldn't shy away from using a feature solely because TF2 uses it. If we could, say, implement the "who killed you?" camera, we might do just that. We'll hear cries of "OMG TF2 RIPOFF NOOB" and ignore them as others appreciate the utility of it. I just used "who killed you camera" as an example, but... yeah.

Originally Posted by battery

Rewards should be in form of congrats from teammates and opponents, not some goofy eye-candies.

No, no, we'd be fine with goofy eye candy. I don't think anyone really has problems with achievments in games, and I could foresee them being used in FF at some point. It's achievments that are necessary to unlock shit to play the game that are a bad idea. We would never do something like that.

[MonoXideAtWork]

On the subject of flag assists:

Using a percentage is the best way imo. It encourages the fantastic coast-to-coast plays that organized players love to see and perform, it rewards someone for picking up the flag or escorting a flag carrier to a certain point.

the flag is worth 1000 points, divide that by how many people touched it for awarding personal score.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by battery

You heard it before, and I am gonna repeat it here again. FF is not TF2. Most of the points you listed are already implemented in TF2. FF was designed to be the opposite of TF2. Rewards should be in form of congrats from teammates and opponents, not some goofy eye-candies.

FF wasn't designed to be the opposite of anything. FF had been in the works before the >current< TF2 was announced. FF was designed to be like TFC but with some twists.

______________________________

To the OP:

Anyway, CTF can't be saved in public play. You can't make two teams complete the same goal but have to split their forces. This requires way too much coordination and team work for public play. Even simple tasks like 'protect the Engineer and his sentry gun' is too much for public play.

This is the biggest reason why CTF does not work in TF2 just as it doesn't work in FF, didn't work in TFC... it's just a game mode that requires too much for public players. I'm not saying that it's too much for them to handle, but whenever I play a game publicly, I don't play to win. I play for fun. This generally means DM'ng people instead of completing objectives. If, however, completing an objective allows me to have an advantage while DM'ng a person, I will complete that objective.

CTF does not allow such things, and as such, people will do whatever they want. You'll get sniper wars, yard DM'ng, pyros jumping all over the place... maybe one or two people are working on the objectives.

In AVD (or just about any other game mode), the DM'ng leads up to the objectives. You have two teams fighting for better DM positions. The offense plays to obtain ground so they can DM in a better position (examine palermo... defenders always have the high ground). The defense wants to retain the height advantage.

It's this sort of dynamic game play that drives people towards those goals. CTF does not drive anybody towards any goals.

No fire works, no sound cues, nadda. There is nothing that can simply be added to existing maps that would allow for better, more organized play. The reasons are listed above.

The only way to 'fix' CTF for public play is by making capturing the flag, or fighting for it, give DM advantage. It needs to be a visible, easily obvious, advantage.

In TF2, this advantage is that the other team can't fire back at you when you win. You are free to kill your enemy when you beat them at whatever objective they are completing. It isn't the "YOU WIN!" orgasmic female voice announcer that does it. It's the fact that I can destroy the enemy while they quiver away helplessly, running for their lives.

The problem is that simply capturing the flag once does not allow this to happen in CTF games, and, as such, it can't be fixed.

You need dynamic maps (maps that change depending on flag captures and who's in the lead) to make CTF viable. You also need smaller maps.

[MightyLotu]

hey, you make it sound like CTF in pubs was always complete garbage, which in many, many cases it wasn't/isn't
in every server i've ever played at in TFC there were always some people who worked together as a team and played to win

the goal here isn't to fix CTF so that all the sudden everyone goes and plays "clanstyle CTF" but simply to improve it, make it more enjoyable and stimulate people to work together as a team more

if anything, if CTF actually DID get fixed somehow, it wouldn't necessaryly be a good thing because it would take some of the freedom you have in CTF away and no pub player would want serious clanstyle play all the time

the brokenness of CTF in pubs plays a big part in the succes of it, it's the freedom of doing whatever you want, play O, play D, play DM, screw around
you're not forced to do anything
as you said, you play pubplay for the fun of it, which is that freedom i'm speaking of, i want to obtain this but simply make it better

the thing is, there is a bit TOO little teamwork stimulance in FF

back in TFC you can/could be sure there's about 75% of the players who play as a team
now, in FF that percentage is more like 50% or something which is why i believe FF needs points like i made to get that number up

[Credge]

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

hey, you make it sound like CTF in pubs was always complete garbage, which in many, many cases it wasn't/isn't

It's because it is. You summed up exactly why it's garbage in your very next sentence.

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

in every server i've ever played at in TFC there were always some people who worked together as a team and played to win

Yes. The same thing happens in FF and TF2.

When you only have some people going for the objectives, it's garbage. It's not fun. It would be like trying to play laser tag, paintball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, or whatever other thing out there when only 1/5th of the people are actually trying to play.

Edit: The problem with CTF in all games is that it requires team coordination. You need people attacking and defending at the same time. You need to be able to adjust strategy on the fly on a massive scale. You don't need to do any of this in any other game mode.

This is why it's garbage in public play and always will be. Period. Your memories of TFC CTF pub play are tainted by memory. It's always been bad. Always.

[xks]

Originally Posted by Credge

Anyway, CTF can't be saved in public play. You can't make two teams complete the same goal but have to split their forces. This requires way too much coordination and team work for public play. Even simple tasks like 'protect the Engineer and his sentry gun' is too much for public play.

This is the biggest reason why CTF does not work in TF2 just as it doesn't work in FF, didn't work in TFC... it's just a game mode that requires too much for public players. I'm not saying that it's too much for them to handle, but whenever I play a game publicly, I don't play to win. I play for fun. This generally means DM'ng people instead of completing objectives. If, however, completing an objective allows me to have an advantage while DM'ng a person, I will complete that objective.

CTF does not allow such things, and as such, people will do whatever they want. You'll get sniper wars, yard DM'ng, pyros jumping all over the place... maybe one or two people are working on the objectives.

I have to disagree.

Of course you can have two teams full of players collectively competing for the same goal. In all objective-oriented team-based games you will find a vast array of playstyles and decision making contributing to what will ultimately be a weaker or a stronger team.

Look at DoD or CS, both are team games and both have team based objectives. Their genius is in the fact that both of them can be played in quite a solitary way with little team organisation or cooperation and also with the maximum amount of organisation, positioning and teamwork. You end up with good players and bad players on each team and they tend to dictate the fate of your team but every plays their part.

In CS it's quite easy to promote the idea of achieving the objectives rather than just randomly killing people (although that also helps your team since there is no respawn and the game is round based). Winning a round lets you keep your weapon, it lets you get more money and therefore a choice of better weapons and it gives your team a great deal of momentum/advantages which ultimately mean you get more kills and more kills = more fun (to most).

CTF is not quite so rewarding when you achieve your objective, there is no instantly recognised "win" if you sucessfully defend the flag (unlike in CS) and there is no instantly recognised "win" if you sucessfully capture the flag/achieve objective (unlike in CS or DoD).

That's not to say that the constantly respawning time-limit style of CTF is a flawed gameplay style compared to the round based gameplay of CS - it certainly isn't. The advantage of CS is that it promotes teamwork or playing for the good of the team without the average player realising it. The disadvantage is that you don't have the intensity of a constantly respawning assault on the enemy base or the intensity of trying to stop a relentless flow of opponents from breaching your defences.

Ultimately it's up to the intelligence of the players.

CS/DoD/FF and all the other team based games all suffer from players letting their teams down through messing around, joking about, going afk, having a lack of ability, lack of knowledge, no desire to achieve objectives or just a casual attitude. All of these games are more entertaining when played in an environment where you are on the same 'level' as those you are playing with, or at least where everyone has a similar degree of knowledge within the game.

To say that CTF is flawed when every team game under the sun suffers the exact same fate is quite wrong to me.

The biggest advantage in terms of accessibility and overall public 'fun factor' that FF (and most CTF games) have to offer is that of instant respawn. There is very little personal suffering or punishment if you die, the punishment is almost exclusively the burden of your team, be it in attack or defence. This is quite different to CS where you might end up sitting doing nothing for several minutes as a result of the tiniest mistake or piece of good luck/back luck.

One of the key reasons I play games like FF/QL now rather than CS is the lack of the punishment factor. I don't get very frustrated or stressed over any mistakes or 'lucky' situations in FF/QL. There is a lot more room for enjoyment without dying and being forced to think over and over about the idiocy of your position if you die in CS

CTF games need to find ways to encourage the rapid learning of advanced play styles/tactics as well as the sense of achievement when focusing on objective based play. Rather than having little difference between the satisfaction of killing people in the yard and touching the enemy flag once or twice.

It's just important to note that the overwhelming majority of those playing any of these games are inexperienced players. Not only that, but they are also players lacking in personal initiative and an overall willingness to drive themselves forward and improve.

If I play a new game I am full of determination to be great at it, I study my enemies and I learn how to perform all the roles involved in the game extremely quickly. I do all of this whilst simply playing the game, as a result I end up adapting rapidly to new games and reaching the higher tier of players far faster. This is not self promotion, I think most of you on this forum are of a similar ilk.

However most people are not like that and the real talent in creating a successful team-based multiplayer game is to have those people involved in the team aspect whether they realise it or not. If you can make them grasp the more skillful elements of the game fast then you're even closer to creating a winner.

I refuse to accept that CTF is terrible on publics because all the players aren't 'forced' to either capture the flag or defend their own flag. If you look at most games the teams tend to divide themselves into offensive based people (venturing outside the base) and defensive based people (remaining inside). What these people do can either be unproductive or excellent, but ultimately there is always a split within the team and that causes the game to function.

All you need to add to that is an improvement in knowing how the game works and how to achieve the objectives in the best way and you'd have a far better gaming experience. This can be achieved many ways which could be explored for a long time on here I think.

Originally Posted by Credge

In AVD (or just about any other game mode), the DM'ng leads up to the objectives. You have two teams fighting for better DM positions. The offense plays to obtain ground so they can DM in a better position (examine palermo... defenders always have the high ground). The defense wants to retain the height advantage.

It's this sort of dynamic game play that drives people towards those goals. CTF does not drive anybody towards any goals.

No fire works, no sound cues, nadda. There is nothing that can simply be added to existing maps that would allow for better, more organized play. The reasons are listed above.

I disagree with all the focus you put on DMing, it's not a DM game. I can't stand people who want to turn a game designed entirely around teamwork, multiple players on the same side and balanced accordingly into some kind of deathmatch game. The DM mods for CS and DoD annoy the hell out of me and I honestly can't see the fun in them whatsoever. The people that play them are among the lowest of the low when it comes to FPS gamers.

The other problem with this DM view of team based games is that it serves only to divide the playerbase. You end up with half the servers running 'DM mods' or DM centric maps and the other half running the proper game. Unfortunately the proper game never gets played properly since everyone is focused on DMing and getting the frags (since they play so many DM oriented maps or the mods).

This brings me to one reason why I think the AvD and other variations are not such a great thing for FF, especially for those who crave higher quality CTF gameplay on publics, pickups and clan matches.

These maps promote DM style gameplay, they promote spamming, they promote 'up the field' defending, they promote going for kills and spawn killing. An example of 'up the field' defending would be many more engineers in FF tending to place guns on the roof of the enemy base, or outside the enemy base. If not in those positions then a whole lot further forward then normal, going for kills, trying to get that "kill them while they exit their spawn/base" feeling that comes mostly in the AvD type maps.

So whilst these maps might be popular or 'fun' on your average joe public server for a bit, ultimately they serve to promote elements of gameplay that make public CTF less fun for many of us.

If the first thing a noob learns in this game is to spam the exits on Dustbowl, or plant SG's outside the gate on Impact then they are going to repeat these things on the CTF maps. I'd much rather they learnt to be cunning with their SG placement to protect the flag or how to deactivate the opponents security on a CTF map.

Originally Posted by Credge

The only way to 'fix' CTF for public play is by making capturing the flag, or fighting for it, give DM advantage. It needs to be a visible, easily obvious, advantage.

The problem is that simply capturing the flag once does not allow this to happen in CTF games, and, as such, it can't be fixed.

You need dynamic maps (maps that change depending on flag captures and who's in the lead) to make CTF viable. You also need smaller maps.

Some interesting points here and I think it's possible through some slight alterations to achieve what would be the 'holy grail' of newbs and pro's all capable of participating and contributing to their teams success.

A temporary advantage of some sort could be a step in the right direction, so long as it's not some kind of carbon copy of TF2's style as I didn't particularly like the way they did that kind of thing.

What sums it up for me would be what happens on CZ2 when you capture all points. Everyone meanders about capping the points at their own pace on that map, but there are also two ways for your team to achieve a dramatic edge over the other one. Both of these ways are ultimately quite rewarding and very much worth striving for. If we could achieve something like that within the standard CTF gameplay it would be a great thing.

I've written enough so I will await some responses, I hope people actually read it

[squeek.]

xks has just won the award for longest post and least read post at the same time.

The problem with CTF is that it has TWO objectives for EACH player/team. Splitting a team successfully between two objectives cannot happen in a public server with random people. End of story.

[MightyLotu]

Originally Posted by xks

#4 We don't need separate points scores, the fortress points system is a good idea and although it could be reworked I think it works fine as it is right now.

yeah, after thinking about it again, i agree that the scoreboard doesn't need more stuff than it already has.. it would be too much, scrap this idea
though i'm still no fan of the fortress points system as it is

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

Have you been playing Quake Live, too?

"Your team is tied for the lead!"

"Your team has taken the lead!"

"Your team has lost the lead!"

Three sentences that are very useful. I like. And of course it can be turned on and off in Fortress Options.

hehe, no but i've always been a fan of the quake sounds and lines
i wanted these sentences to be in tfc too, right now in tfc and ff it's just
"Your team has captured the enemy flag"
"The enemy team has captured your flag"
"Your team has captured the enemy flag" and so on.. you always have to look at the scoreboard to see who'se actually winning it would be nice to have a few more sentences like those that can actually be usefull..

We've actually debated this kinda stuff at length. It's hard to figure it out.

How do you deal the points? People who touched it? Then it could just get tossed around for people to whore FP.

Distance covered? Run around in circles with the flag.

Time held? Just stand there holding it.

This one's a pickle that we haven't quite salted yet.

yeah, the point whoring thing.. i don't think that will happen as people will just want to cap it before some teammate steals it and generally people don't care too much about fortress points.. of course there will always be the occasional jerks, but still.. there would be 2 of them needed and it wouldn't be hard for another teammember to steal it back from them if it does happen

as dealing with the points goes.. people who touched it yes, not distance covered or time held.. you know, there's always those times where you lose the flag in your base or right at the cappoint and a teammember steals it.. you can't do anything about that either (atleast this way the one that carried it will still get some points )

Longer could be a bit annoying.

One thing we want to do in the future is really enhance the customization of FF beyond "replace sound.wav with your own". Like, a drop-down menu kind of thing for fucking everything. Models, sounds, the menu background, etc. The more customizable the better.

i can live with the current capture sound if it won't get changed but i still think there should be a separate capture sound for the enemy team

and to battery..
i've never even played TF2.. these points are strictly for FF, stuff i wanted to see in FF long before there was even talk of TF2

and still, why do you think they are in TF2 then? obviously they seem to be a good thing as there's a lot of people playing TF2

[xks]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

We've actually debated this kinda stuff at length. It's hard to figure it out.

How do you deal the points? People who touched it? Then it could just get tossed around for people to whore FP.

Distance covered? Run around in circles with the flag.

Time held? Just stand there holding it.

This one's a pickle that we haven't quite salted yet.

Yes, people who touched it.

Just have a simple rule of if you throw it twice in a row you don't gain any further points from it. Since many attackers toss the flag legitimately it would be wrong to disallow it completely when it comes to sharing FF points, but at the same time it's extremely rare for an attacker to get to toss the flag and immediately pick it up again and toss it again. Most of the time the guy who tosses the flag is dead or tossing it to get it outside of security before he dies.

It could technically be exploitable somewhere if loads of people wanted to group together and throw the flag around for a few extra fortress points but realistically why would anyone bother?

Another thing that could be done to stop most exploiting is to remove the touch bonus once you've crossed the yard. This would prevent private swapping of the flag where the opposition can't interfere. Since the oppositions interference for would be the main thing to prevent any repeated throwing for points it seems a good idea to do this.

[bowser]

We've actually debated this kinda stuff at length. It's hard to figure it out.

How do you deal the points? People who touched it? Then it could just get tossed around for people to whore FP.

Distance covered? Run around in circles with the flag.

Time held? Just stand there holding it.

This one's a pickle that we haven't quite salted yet.

I think a flag assist could possibly be achieved by awarding points to whoever held the flag within a certain amount of time before it is capped. it could possibly be whored where you pass it to a bunch of teammates and then cap but i dont think that would be very practical.

ex. if you touched the flag 20-30 seconds before it was capped you get assist points.

[xks]

To those of you wanting Quake / UT voice effects, this is a different game think of something original and unique. Quake have their unique and well tailored voices that work with the game, UT has effects that works with that game and all people who make HL mods or run HL servers can do is add the exact same noises.

They do not fit with this game, they don't work and all they do is remind me how annoying UT was and how much better Quake is than whatever I'm currently playing

Get some originality, I would love for those silly voice mods and any other silly mods to be completely removed from HL engine games.

[MonoXideAtWork]

I wanna hear a hot bitch talk about the flag.

"Blue flag has been moved x meters"

to go with the security and cap voices.

Also, announcing headshots would be great. (not in the UT voice)

Things pub players may like to hear announced:

headshots,
radiotags,
activation of sabotaged sentries
exchanging of team leads.