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Old 12-21-2012, 03:14 PM   #23
Innoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoKill-----> View Post
Innoc is right, the thread was being hijack and off topic.

With that said, I am down the middle when it comes to gun owner ship, but I do believe in banning Assault weapons. I understand gun enthusiasts, but some weapons should not belong to average citizens, only the military.

What is the point, besides pride, of owning an assault weapon?
I had a rough night last night so I will apologize if what I write seems either unclear....or tl;dr...This is a very important topic to me.

First I think we should have some understanding of the term Assault Weapon. It's a made up word that largely is designed to invoke a fear reaction. Any time the word is used as part of legislation it must be very rigidly defined as the term itself is meaningless. You can google it yourself and see what I am saying.

Take a Mini 14 rifle with a light brown stock made of wood and compare with the exact same rifle that has had it's stock replaced with a folding stock and has had perhaps a laser or other targeting aids. In past bills and bans you would see the latter defined as an assault weapon and banned even though there is literally nothing at a functional level that sets the two rifles apart. They both operate in the same manner....and both use a very common rifle round.

As far as means testing goes for whether a private citizen should be "allowed" or not "allowed" I think it's important to reiterate the framework that makes owning such a weapon covered by the 2nd Amendment. Let me first start of by saying that I disagree vehemently with those who say that the concepts in the Constitution are antiquated and out of step with "Modern Society".

There's a number of concepts and drivers that lead to the inclusion of the 2nd Amendment. There is an implied order of important as you look at the initial Amendments. The Rights protected in the 1st Amendment were deemed to be the most important of all. These were rights that had been absolutely stomped on by European Govt and it was something for which people had been persecuted, imprisoned and killed. Which is why the 2nd Amendment was the next most important.

Protecting (Note: it does not establish or create those rights....only protects) the Rights under the 1st Amendment could best be guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. With the Power being in the hands of the people there would be little to no risk of the People being ordered about and crushed by a standing army. Additionally, preserving that right to keep and bear arms as also been described as that critical piece to allow the people to throw off the yoke of tyranny should Government become so intrusive, burdensome and overbearing that the people of the time find that to be necessary.

There are other elements that influence the rights protected by the 2nd Amendment. That is the Right to Self Defense as a function of Natural Law. The 2A is a natural extension of ones right to defend oneself from others that would rob, injure or kill you. Depending on the Police to protect you is stupid. The fact of the matter is that, with few exceptions, all the Police do is arrive after the crime occurred and try to see if they can figure out what happened. Self defense using firearms happens daily but it's the major events that, to me, justifies the keeping of high-power rapid fire weapons by the law abiding citizen should they decide to do so.

While it happened some time ago the 1992 LA Riots would be a perfect example. Look at the experience of the Korean-Americans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Lo...rean-Americans Yeah....I know...it's Wikipedia. Bite me...it was a quick grab. Anyway, I suspect that most of you are probably not old enough to remember this event. I do. The Korean-American community banded together to protect their shops and one another during the riots. And when the trials circled around the next year they prepared for the worst in case there was a verdict that the scumbags didn't like....and riots broke out again.

Want something a little more recent? How about the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005? Not only was the looting and violence out of control but you also had numerous accounts of the Police participating in both. If you're interested you can dig for yourself. This would, however, be an example of where being able to own whatever firearm you decide you want would be important.

A firearm is not like a car where you're likely to be using and doing something with it daily. If you're an enthusiast you shoot with regularity but even that isn't daily. There may be many reasons why but it doesn't matter. It's an activity that occurs under the protection of the 2nd Amendment. That some posting here and elsewhere don't see the point or necessity doesn't matter. The VAST majority of people do their thing under the protection of the 2nd Amendment and it doesn't affect anyone else...ever.

Since Sandy Hook is the impetus for this thread why not consider the following:
  • If you want to do something then figure out how to identify sooner and get help for the broken people who are given bad ideas by video games and movies.
  • Let's create defensible space within the schools where a bad guy could be stalled long enough for the Police tactical teams to arrive.
  • Let's consider permitting those teachers that wish to carry concealed in school the opportunity to do so.
  • Let's create improved warning systems so that when a school goes into lockdown external sirens alert the surrounding buildings and homes.

We're not going to stop evil and/or crazy people from hurting others. There is, however, things that can be done to mitigate the damage they do. Frankly the concept of the gun-free zone needs to go away. Most states already have a number of CCW permit holders and they are NOT the root cause of our problems. Florida has had it for the longest time and has the longest statistics available for their ccw permittee holders.

I would point out that the worst school massacre did not involve firearms. And if the number of deaths is what bothers you then you're being short-sighted...look at all of the other causes of preventable death.

@aleXtric: If you're going to insult then feel free to leave. I'm happy to have a reasoned discussion but if this is all you've got then see ya.

edit: ugh....wall of text....
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Last edited by Innoc; 12-21-2012 at 03:15 PM.
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