[Bridget]

Originally Posted by VentuSag3

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How many development team members and regular forum goers have to constantly point it out to you time and time again that you do nothing but argue out of scope? I argue out of scope too by addressing your arguments. I shouldn't have given them any credence and simply ignored you. Refer to this argument:

Originally Posted by Green Mushy

Its not an issue of the class being used or not used in league play, nor is it about the class being overpowered. Both squeek and i have tried to explain this in previous posts. Ill try to use an analogy. If there is a class that can use his mind to kill any player he can see instantly, but it takes 30 seconds to charge up, that class would not be used in league play. [However, that] class is still broken. We would still be having the same exact argument, and still be making the same points. The issues would remain the same. Its about the mechanic of a long range weapon.

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Originally Posted by eomoyaff

Please close this Thread.

This thread isn't going to be to be closed simply because you can't handle it. You can consciously make the decision not to visit it or post in it or what have you. Discussion gets heated. It's a fact of life. Now stop contributing to what you have a problem with, and let's get back to the topic at hand.

I actually like this thread, it's quite thought stimulating. I agree with the 'anti-snipers' adamantly... As a Demoman and Soldier, all it takes is one sniper for me to have to completely freaking change my tactics to simply suicide bombing them instead of focusing on what I usually do.

That takes a rocket and two grenades, or three grenades and an MIRV. After the 10th time they won't kill me in midair, so I'll have a chance to spawn camp that prick until he starts crying. But at that point I've got like 30 HP and 5 Armor, all taxes based on the blast damage and falling I've sustained just to get to the other side of the field. So either way I'm screwed. If I don't change my focus to him, I'm pretty much quarantined on my side of the map.

Yeah, this is a huge problem. The Sniper is such an annoyance that you have to sacrifice core gameplay to take him out. This is why I frown upon the current suggestions for countering Snipers. They counter intuitive and desperate and quite the opposite of 'countering' Sniper. They don't counter the sniper, they're tactics you take because the Sniper countered you.

Why would I waste my time concing the Sniper when I could use that concussion grenade to try to get the enemy flag? Why would I play a demoman and camp the battlements to counter the Sniper (which has got me kicked so many times and banned a few others) when I can contribute to my team's defense however unexciting? Why would I want to take up an Engineer slot playing offensive with the railgun simply to kill a Sniper who would respawn instantly and be right back to business once he runs out of his spawn? Is this Fortress Forever or some MMORPG with an entire team trying to take out one boss?

This is why public games go stale (The Sniper is more useful in public games because the offense is less organized and fluid. Let's also remember there is usually more than one Sniper.) because each team's offense meets in the yard with the intent of taking out the enemy Sniper. They deathmatch it up, but the Snipers are always in the background breaking any progress. It's a draw. Eventually, the field is reset, and the process repeats.

People get discouraged; they go defense. The other team does the same. The people who stay on offense are still unable on some minimum level to get past the Snipers. The defense only sees Scouts and Medics and the occasional other class that gets through. It isn't exciting for them killing Scouts and Medics over and over, there's no high point where an entire team rushes into the base and all hell breaks out. Nope, the defense gets bored and leaves. The offense gets bored of capping on no defense, they leave.

Sniper is an entire level of defense on his own. He is fucked up on so many levels. Why? Because of his weapon. His long range weapon allows him such influence because no influence happens upon him. No one can fight back, so he controls the fight. The game is dependent upon luck and not skill to get across the yard; his luck hitting you or your luck in him missing. That is the opposite of what FF is supposed to be. Luck is luck. Where's the skill?