[Bridget]

It's about working out a solution that is simple to implement and doesn't rob another aspect of the game. Ridding AVD maps of the Demoman isn't ideal and recreating the maps to suppress the problem doesn't actually get rid of the problem. There have been a few suggestions. Reduce friendly push on pipes so eight pipes is equal to two or so (Green Mushy) and weigh the flag-carrier down in air so he doesn't gain such distance (I).

It can get annoying even with an enemy Demoman piping regular offensive members over the wall or across the map before your defense can set up. It creates additional fronts on some maps that the defense has to sacrifice resources to defend. With the third capture point on Palermo, the defense has to fix their guns in place to defend against the long stairs up the side and the tunnel coming up the other side. When you got demoman firing off team mates over the wall, then you have to defend against that as well. It's overwhelming.

Think about the first capture point. The enemies just pipe jump up over the wall. Because the wall is so tall, the sentry guns rarely have time to lock on by the time the enemy has landed on the capture point. It's almost pointless trying to defend the stairs, because of this. Pipe jumps are irritating still because if the person flying over the map isn't carrying a flag, you can bet your ass he's carrying a mirv and will rain it and a few frag nades down on the sentries to easily cap on his next jump. Pipe jumps = offense on steroids

It is map-based, but coincidentally, it's a problem on a lot of maps. The first capture point on kSour can become stale if the defense is good (why punish the D for holding its own?) so demomen just begin to pipe themselves to the little foundation and throw mirvs wildly trying to break up the sentry guns. I don't think that's a valid why people should be playing FF. That's pretty damn desperate. There needs to be another way to break through stalemates.

I'm getting a bit off topic. Assisted movement is a problem because pipe jumping in general is a problem. Meh, let the discussion go where it wants, I guess.