This is true, and for the past week (I've been playing TFC because my video card is broken and can only handle Goldsrc games, lol) has irritated me so much. If you join a popular TFC server and pay attention to the upper right 'kill notifications' then it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that most of the kills are from two broken aspects of the game: Snipers and grenades. I am not going to argue against Snipers, no matter how much I think they don't deserve to be in a game where all the other classes have range restrictions. It's a topic for another time, but I do want to address grenades.

Grenades are too powerful, which is ironic, because I imagine their original purpose was to act as a support item, something to give you an edge in a fight or help you finish off an opponent. In reality, grenades are so powerful, that you can essentially use nothing but grenades to combat people in Team Fortress games. You can absolutely neglect using your class weapons, because a single fragmentation grenade is usually enough to take out anyone, as no one runs around all the time with perfect health; They're going to have some 'bumps and bruises'.

The fragmentation grenade is powerful enough to destroy a sentry gun assuming the sentry has a few slivers of health sliced off from its maximum health. Now, take a look at something like the Mirv. It deals an inital blast equal to a single fragmentation grenade, then drops four 'Mirvlets' which act as fragmentation grenades as well. You have five grenades in one with the Mirv. Overpowered much? This is a huge balance problem, but people tend to 'cling' to the Mirv, because it was in TFC and holds some 'memories' or 'nostalgia' with them.

Grenades need to be removed or reworked to act as non-combat tools. Let me just throw a random idea out. Made up on the spot! The Mirv, for example. What if it could be dropped (not tossed, negating any possible use as weapon) and then opened, depositing five yellow manually detonate-able pipes where it disassembled? These wouldn't explode or deal damage, unless the demoman used his alt-fire button. This acts as a 'tool' instead of a weapon. He can now quickly set up pipe traps and is free to deal combat damage with his real weapons, such as the blue pipes or his single shotgun. Get what I'm saying?

I would be open to seeing bunny hop limited to only the Scout. He is, after all, the 'movement class'. There are too many already-implemented means of movement that, while they require some skill and practice, are not as counter intuitive as bunny hopping. Examples such as grenade jumping, rocket jumping, trimping, concussion grenades, jump pads, and so on and so forth.

I am for decreasing grenades, I suggested that one should have two frag grenades maximum and one secondary 'unique grenade' maximum if they were not reworked. In addition, I would like to see a system that 'powers up the grenades', as I suggested a long time ago: The longer you keep a grenade primed, the more damage it deals (working from no damage to 100% damage as intended now). This punishes people who spam their grenades mindlessly without a prime and rewards those who are conservative and use them correctly.

No comment on the Scout bunny hop decrease. I 'unno.

I would like to at least one version of this mod with these changes implemented to see if the reaction is positive or if the popularity of mod will suddenly increase. If so then keep the changes for future versions (some servers could still have the option to enable bunny hopping to keep the fans of it happy)


Unique grenades sounds like a interesting idea. TF2 in its development stages had different grenade types but never made it into the final product. I would actually like to see this in FF if its done in a way that makes it more tactical and impossible to really spam with.

This will definitely keep the flavor of TFC at the same time giving something new/more balanced.

That's why Fortress Forever has a beta team.

I think people make a mistake by suggesting or implying that FF should follow in the footsteps of Team Fortress Classic. It should make its own footsteps using the same pair of shoes. (For anyone confused by that, Fortress Forever should be a 'Team Fortress' game, not a 'Like Team Fortress Classic' game.)

We can not address these issues in all one post. Again, please separate each of your ideas out into it's own suggestion. Only then can we address them and make decisions/adjust/and assign them.