To whom it may concern
 

I've been able to play FF for a couple of weeks now, off and on, whenever a server fills. It's enjoyable, for the most part, but there's something I have yet to understand with the majority of the "good" people that join a pub server


WHY THE RAGE?!


I get it, you're the only one on your team playing offense against 4 people who relatively know what they're doing on defense. It doesn't mean you have to be vaginal discharge to prove that you're some macho macho man gamer. You're an ass.

I thought I would come back and give FF a try just to see if 2.42 or 2.cjklfsdkljf would be worth it since it has been 83 years since a legitimate update that didn't completely ruin the balance of the game came out. And while the game is still fun, the community isn't. I will do my FPS gaming elsewhere. It's a shame this mod degenerated in to what it is now, it had so much potential.

I could already tell what this thread was about just from the name.

was there a silent 2.42 release i missed?

Too many frap's, I think.

Doesn't Porky have a valid point?

I'd really like to hear what others think about his conclusion.

show me a online game of any genre, and ill show you rage.

its just part of playing games on the net. sorry you couldn't handle it.

better luck next time.

That is the way FF rolls. Unless the medic and scout can conc or bunny hop around everything, the developers are not goign to be happy.


Its been that way for awhile.

Certain members of the community make sure they make other players feel unwelcome. If the player does not leave, then the harassment kicks in.

Considering your other posts in other threads and by this exemplary bit of literature, I can tell you're one of the rageaholics that infect this mod like a puss filled sore. Yes, any game has rage, congrats, you're Capt. Obvious, but FF's ragers are so acute in their reactions that it often ruins ANY game they are in. I played this mod since it released, I dealt with it for years until it just became so overwhelmingly obvious that the game was being made FOR those rageaholics. I don't have to dedicate my time any further to a mod team or community that concerns itself around former hackers and considerable douche bags.

Usually ragers are humorous, but with FF, the rage is magnified because the community is so small. The mod is all but dead and you have people running around verbally abusing anyone who is using the medic on defense to heal folks instead of having it fly around in a fucking space ship to skip past another player with a considerably bigger gun. Get over yourself Lynus, you sound as if you're some sort of spokesman for the failure that is FF's community.

And this is where it get's pretty interesting...

I have to be honest here. I think this rage you speak of is a little more complex then where you're going with it. When I play with Chef in pickups, i rarely see any of this so called "rage" from him. I can understand if the teams were not balanced, but normally in that situation it's more then more person who has a problem with it. So you can't really single him out like that. I mean look at what you're actually doing. You're defending your opinions over the internet against someone you could/should not even give a damn about. You're telling him off like some sort of lawful politician.

It really has nothing to do with the game. It's just everyones attitudes outside of the game that causes the game grief. And anyone who points their fingers usually exclude themselves from being just as low as who they claim to be their opposite. It's to my belief that I'm not taking a side or anything, but honestly, anyone who spends their time in this forum postings ridiculous threads like this one need to understand that their ALL wearing the same shoes.

Moya, that is an ignorant assumption. Just because Chef behaves around you, and your definition of him behaving may be what we consider misbehaving, doesn't mean that he does that for every other person. Second, don't tell Porky Pig that he should forfeit his opinion because he "could not or should not" care about a person on the internet. You're not him. Who the fuck are you to say what he is capable of or should be doing? It's especially ironic that you would state this while committing the same "mistake" you cite him for; giving a shit about people on the Internet.

If the pickup crowd didn't have such an influence on the game, or the game were not developed for them in mind, beginners and mediocre players would not have to suffer. The pub has no structure, which makes the game eventually boring to public players who don't want to roam around death-matching. The public has no structure thanks to what or whom? A development team that supports a niche of the FF community, which makes due by agreeing to a standard of play that would be next to impossible to spontaneously arise in a public environment. Hey, if we can do it, so can random beginners meeting in a pub, right?

So, the beginner, lacking structure in the public environment must make a choice. He can continue playing the no-structure public game, in which he will eventually become bored (I became bored of FF merely weeks after playing it. The only reason I am still around is because I feel it has potential if it had some structure and key fixes, and because I am part of a bad ass community (TALOS) which makes the game tolerable when I do play. Actually, I'm not sure of the former. This game is dead.) or he can seek structure, which means having to play pickup games.

Well, here we come to the classic community problem. You see, it's not the structure of Fortress Forever's pickup games that turn people off. I managed to get absolute beginners to play structured matches in the Talos Private Server for quite some time. The problem now becomes having to integrate with some of the most sociopathic lamers on the planet. The experienced crowd here on FF consists of two twos of people. You have the people who use their experience in a positive way, such as Banana Hammock who has gone out of his way many times to educate beginners, including myself. You also have the people who become experienced, and become arrogant elitists. Unfortunately, the latter is the norm for our community.

If the beginner integrates into the pickup community as a positive player, his efforts hardly ever get noticed, and he may quit in frustrated of those that represent him. If the beginner integrates as an elitist, he fuels the shit-wagon that is ff.pickup further. Do you see the problem here? The development team develops this game for the pickup crowd, mostly. The public players have nothing to sustain their play, so they either leave or try to play pickups. When they play pickups, they either rage-quit because the pickup community is full of failures, or integrate in one of two ways. If they become experienced and humble, their efforts always go unnoticed and/or they leave. If they become experienced and elitist, things get worse, more elitists influence the game, more people poorly represent the game, there's a bigger chance of players being turned off.

In other words, game's dead.

Excellent post, Bridget. I know I don't play as much as I should(don't have the time like I wish I did), but I have always tried to help out anyone I saw that was new to the game. I haven't seen one in quite a while. Although I will say that I have played pubs and clan matches(haven't seen the latter in a while either)... but pubs is where I find the most enjoyment.

I've been saying it for several years, show the new people how to play, and most of the time, they will try and play that way. Maybe part of the problem is the mentality of the people who, as you say, "get good and become an elitist asshole"(paraphrased). I hate to bring this up, but have you noticed this mentality not only in other games, but in real life as well? I certainly have. I'll even point at the NFL issue going on right now as an example.

Can we change it? I honestly don't know. I think it may be too deeply rooted in society, and carried over into "relaxation and fun" stuff like video games. Yes, the lack of player numbers really brings the problem into sharp relief.

If you have any ideas that we, in the community, can try and do(besides shooting the elitist people).... let's hear them.

Say what you will, but I personally just don't care. I'm just stating that it's not important enough to matter. That's all. I'm still laughing at the immense amount of text you'd supply over something I said just to get your silly point across. You have no idea that you've just wasted a good portion of time over something as little as what I stated. A pretty ignorant flaw yourself, sir.

Also, Come back to FF so I can beat you up more, ok Bridget? :)

I actually spend a lot of my time attempting to teach new players how to play. And those who are decent at FF, I attempt to help improve their game by showing them what I've learned. I'm not like most of the Elitist type's who gloat and tell people how bad they are. I take what I learn and spread it like butter.

And for some people, they believe I'm telling other's how to play the game. I only get involved when people ask questions. I don't immediately attack new players and tell them whats right or wrong. That's a little stupid haha!

As for an Idea, I heard something a while back about a training map to help players learn the fundamentals of the game. And before that there was a Fortress Forever Training School. It might be too late, but for those who actually stick around, and want to get better, I'd like to see those two things go into affect. :D

No, you can't change that, but you can prevent beginners and the less experienced from having to turn themselves over to these people to get structure in their games. That means developing some sort of internal pickup-mode for the game. That means having a time-limit, a capture-limit, disabling flags when not in use, and so on; a way of enforcing a gameplay with structure. Of course, it should be optional, and the server-owner should be able to toggle it off, with something like mp_tournament 0/1.

That's the problem. Public FF has no structure. The result of this is that it either turns players away from the game, or funnels players straight into the pickup community (the worst representatives on Earth) making them part of the elitists that ruin the community, an unnoticed minority under them, or finally does turn them away if they even managed to make it thus far.

Get rid of the dependency on having to play manual pickup games to play Fortress Forever, and players no longer have to deal with two of the biggest problems in this game.

Don't flatter yourself, only a portion of my post was directed at you.

I would think that could be solved by editing the LUA for each map, and wouldn't need the Devs approval for that(although maybe the mappers?)... I think. Maybe one of them could chime in on this line of thinking.

I tried making something like this, but there were some problems I ran in to. I think I mentioned one of them to Squeek, which was that the timer would call GoToIntermission (brings up scoreboard and goes to next map) if it reached or were set to 0, which made it difficult to use the timer for countdowns (that weren't supposed to end the map when they hit 0) or when setting the time to 0 (for waiting until there were enough players or for intermissions or something).

Again with the attacking of the Elitist, Bridget. It'd be a different story if you were one of them... Just saying.

I enjoy Pickups a lot. As most people who play them do. It's not really fair for you to say we ruin anything because when it comes to pubs, we're just as spontaneous as most of the players in the server. We don't try to control the game play and command people -- where and what to play, or even how. I'm sure we might talk shit from time to time, or say "my team sucks," but I'd imagine you'd get that with most players in most games. That's nothing out of the ordinary.

If you're referring to how much more skill the elitist have over the pub players and how that might ruin their game -- lol, that's not on us, that's a bitchy excuse. "I'm going to leave because everyone here is better then me." Honestly, I see that as laziness on the players part for not having a will to learn the game's advanced moves and tactics. You play with the best, you become one. It's that simple.

Now if it's not really either of these, well then help me by explaining why you believe that the Elitist ruin pubs. You might just have that defined word confused with another.

Yeah, you're right, It would be a different story if I were one of the elitists. I'm not. When I refer to "ff.pickup" I am exclusively talking about the segment of it that is bad, not it as a whole (I figured you and others would have gotten this.) So, your arguments are futile.

Bridget wasn't "attacking" elitists... he was simply pointing out what he sees as a problem.

I hope you saw the part where he suggested a solution to part of the problems that is out there. I'm not familiar with LUA, and right now, I don't have the time to learn. It may be one solution to a problem that's out there. I already know that we can't change people's attitudes. Shame, but a fact of life.