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-   -   TF2 Medic Update details L@@K (https://forums.fortress-forever.com/showthread.php?t=15556)

EngeeMan 04-16-2008 12:53 PM

TF2 Medic Update details L@@K
 
Shacknews reporting:

Quote:

Developer Valve released the final details on its upcoming Team Fortress 2 content update during a party tonight in downtown San Francisco.

In addition to the known crit-increasing gun "The Critzcrieg," the remaining two unlockable medic weapons were also available for hands-on time. Dubbed "The Blutsaugher" and "The Ubersaw," they will serve as replacements for the medic's standard syringe and bonesaw, respectively. The weapons will be earned through a new achievement system, and equipped through a loadout menu.

Below you can check out Valve's official descriptions for the weapons. Stay tuned for impressions of the new content--including the fantastic Goldrush map--as well as an interview with Valve's Robin Walker.

The Blutsaugher
For players that earn one third of the 36 new medic achievements, they will be given a new syringe gun. Called "The Blutsaugher," this new weapon no longer has the ability to score critical hits against an opponent. Instead it will draw health from enemies each time a syringe hits. Especially useful as a weapon to retreat away from the fight while staying alive.

The Critzcrieg
Once a medic has earned two thirds of the achievements, they will be granted "The Critzcrieg." This new medigun uses its ubercharge not for invulnerability, but to give its recipient 100% chance to fire critical ordinance. Medics and the player they are charging need to be careful though, because as much fun as it is to fire critical rockets as fast as you can, the other team will see what you're up to and try to put a quick stop to your plan.

The Ubersaw
For the determined medic that has earned all 36 of the new achievements, they will find themselves the proud owner of "The Ubersaw," which will take damage done in melee attacks and convert it directly to ubercharge. Four hits with this new weapon will fully charge whatever medigun the medic has equpped.
More details here:

Quote:

...
In short, this update will be a much-needed breath of fresh air for those growing tired of TF2's standard offerings. And rather than a dying gasp, it feels more like the beginning of a deep, satisfying inhalation of content.

When it comes to revitalizing TF2, I must confess, I'm far more interested in new maps than extra gameplay mechanics. In that respect, Goldrush--the first map following the "Payload" game type--had fully captured my attention when it was announced. I am happy to report that it does not disappoint.

For those not in the know: Payload tasks an attacking team with moving a mine cart--filled with a Fat Man-styled bomb--from one end of the map to another, the explosive eventually detonating in the defending team's base. The cart follows a set path, with players moving the transport forward by staying within a small perimeter, increasing the acceleration through greater numbers.

Payload feels like a one-way capture point (CP) map in a sense, as the attacking team will be passing checkpoints throughout the map that add time to their clock. The defending team can only hope to halt the assault through a variation of devious ambushes. If they manage to keep the attackers from touching the cart for 30 seconds, the cart will then begin to slip backwards, to the defenders' certain frustration.

All of this is far easier to understand with a quick glance at the simple HUD, which represents the cart's progress with a simple icon that slowly moves forward on a bar. The number of players currently moving the cart is also displayed, in addition to major checkpoints.

Just as Valve bills it, the essence of Payload resembles a combination of Dustbowl and TFC's Hunted. Because of the dynamic element of the mine cart, the map requires smart teamwork and fast, reflexive thinking. There are plenty of areas where the defending team has an advantage, whether it be by way of higher ground or choke points. The attackers must quickly adapt to continuously changing battle scenarios in order to see the bomb home.

The mine cart itself presents some strategic questions. The round begins with the cart on the defensive side of the starting gates, so the attackers must fight through hell to even get the wheels rolling. On the plus side, the bulbous bomb works as a convenient source of cover. Smart players will put such an advantage to use, sniping from behind the moving object, continuously positioning it between them and the enemy.

As in Dustbowl, I found myself equally divided when it came to my preference for attack or defense. On the one hand, defending on Goldrush was a matter of airborne ambushes and downright sadistic sticky-bomb traps, a guerrilla war of entertaining proportions. On the other, guiding the mine cart is one of the most purely team-based activities to be found in TF2, and thus is bound to provide for some classic scenarios.

Not to mention that attacking can often be the easier of the two tasks. In fact, the attackers won most of the rounds during our match. This may have something to do with everyone playing medic, but it also seems that defending will require a solid knowledge of the twists and turns of Goldrush's varied arrangements. While a good team can blast through a CP map in seconds, even the most clueless of public rabble will be able to stand next to a cart and push. Defenders must offer stiff resistance to provide for a good match.

After a while our defending team caught on, and not a moment too soon--the attacking team's cart had been stopped literally inches from the final goal. This triggered an Alamo-style battle, with attackers pouring out of holes to make a charge for the cart. The final point in this configuration clearly resembled Dustbowl, with a catwalk shortcut from above, a long way around to the right, and a nearby spawn.

We put up a good fight, but were eventually overwhelmed, the red team pushing the cart one last inch and blowing a hole in our dreams.

But enough about Goldrush. Probably the more significant of the major additions, the unlockable weapons signal a huge change for Team Fortress 2. And while the other classes will receive their new guns "quickly," the medic weapons will serve as the initial installment.

By far my favorite of the new offerings is the Ubersaw. Looking more like a gun from Gears of War, the Ubersaw is stained from hilt to curved blade in blood, a twisted piece of bad-ass metal. It adds 25% to your ubercharge after scoring a hit, at the expense of a 20% slower firing speed compared to the standard Bonesaw. Meant for the more offensively minded medics--AlexXdude, maldoror, et al--the potential for ubercharge madness, as well as total embarrassment and disastrous medic time-wasting, is huge.

The Blutsauger--"The Vampire" in German--looks more like a blaster than a needle gun. It will suck away your enemy's health and add it to yours at the rate of three health per hit, a nasty self-healing weapon. But again, while it sounds superior to the Syringe Gun on paper, it lacks the ability to score critical hits, making it more of a defensive tool than anything else.

The Critzcrieg we knew about, but it was no less interesting to play around with. The gun itself emits a passive yellow glow, and upon ubercharge, casts a Palpatine-esque lightning around your teammate's weapon, imbuing him with non-stop critical hits for 10 seconds. Deadly to be sure, but much like a standard ubercharge, it only stays active for so long. The charge must be well-timed, and fully taken advantage of. Unlike the health variant, this crit-uber provides no defense for your attacker, relying totally on the skill of your teammate. If your soldier wastes his few critical rockets on the wall, you'll be forced to beat a hasty retreat, with little gain to show for it.

A loadout menu allows for between-spawn changing of each weapon. From the looks of things, Valve is planning to eventually add even more than the three extra weapons per class, as the loadout lists under each currently-equipped item: "(1 other in inventory)." Changing the primary Syringe Gun, for instance, brings you to an individual Primary Weapon loadout screen, with only one other option--The Blutsauger--currently available.

Like many of you, I was skeptical of the new weapons at first. I asked an imaginary Valve questions like: Why would you take the risk of potentially unbalancing such a balanced game? Why jump on the "unlockable" bandwagon when the game is already so solid? Why would you do this to my beloved pastime, Valve? Why?

The simple answer is, I think, that Valve might just succeed in digging the core of this game even deeper.

The Ubersaw is my favorite example. In recent weeks, growing a little bored of my typical Heavy setup, I've been playing the medic as an offensive melee class. The game, at present, makes it very difficult to do such a thing, and thus the challenge. However, with the Ubersaw, Valve is rewarding me for the same experimentation that I naturally gravitated toward. It is those kinds of wild gameplay scenarios that, if carefully balanced on a weapon-by-weapon basis, could add a huge amount of replay value to the TF2 experience.

As far as the development process behind these new toys, TF2 team captain Robin Walker told me that the unlockables have been far easier to balance than the actual classes. He seemed less concerned with balancing in general than I expected, though he noted that if any of the changes are unpopular amongst the community, the team will certainly take note.

I know a lot of Team Fortress 2 players--past and present--are worried about the longevity of the game. I didn't play Goldrush for thirty hours, so I can't tell whether it's the second coming of gameplay addiction. I don't know if these unlockable weapons will please everybody, and who knows what it will do to the game in terms of balancing.

All I know is, if you're trying to get ahold of me in a couple of weeks, you might want to look on Steam.

The new TF2 content is scheduled to go live sometime in the next few weeks.
An Interview with demigod aussie Sir Robin Walker

Quote:

Shack: How did you approach the balancing of the new weapons?

Robin Walker: So the same way classes have pros and cons and strengths and weaknesses, you just adopt that here. We took that same approach with items, where items have those trade-offs. So the Blutsauger, you know, you add 3 health every time you hit an opponent, which is great if you're fleeing and you wanna keep yourself alive, but it never critical hits, and any medic who plays is gonna tell you that a lot of your kills with the Syringe Gun come from those critical hits, so there's this trade-off to make there. But we really wanted that kind of trade-off, the same trade-off you make when you choose a class, to be there when you're choosing an item.

Shack: My first reaction was to worry about how this might change the core game. Have you guys been play-testing this like crazy?

Robin Walker: We play-test this a lot. It's funny, this a lot easier of a problem than balancing the classes. Because you've got a fairly balanced case with the classes right now, and we can add an item and test, and see what changes. Whereas a year ago, when we were testing nine classes all at the same time, we had a ton of balls in the air. It was really hard.

Shack: Does the staggered release have anything to do with the issue of balancing?

Robin Walker: The staggered release is more actually--that's how fast we can get things done. This [first release] needed a lot of work in the backend. We have persistent data storage on the Steam backend now for what items you've unlocked--your weapon inventory is going to show up on your Steam profile, all that kind of stuff. So there was a lot of backend work for this that we're not going to have to do as we go forward, so we envision the next ones being done a lot faster than this.

Shack: Is it your priority now to finish up the rest of the class weapons?

Robin Walker: We're still pushing on new maps as well, because obviously map-makers aren't terribly involved in this stuff, but our programmers are crushing away on the big new achievements. Aiming for around 35 new achievements for each class, and the three unlockables. We're also going to be looking at ways that players can get items other than achievement unlocking. We really want everyone to sort of have that fun of choosing that trade-off, and obviously that gets more interesting as you get more items and so on.

And of course, as always, we'll be seeing how the community reacts to these. That's another reason why we like doing staggered releases, why we ship as fast as we can get done, because that way we learn as we go, instead of building all these achievements at once and then finding out that our entire achievement design philosophy is broken.

...
Shack: Are you planning another map with Payload gameplay, or will Goldrush be unique for now?

Robin Walker: We already have some plans for what we want to try next. We really want to try out a map where you're escorting a cart, and the cart's big enough that engineers are actually building on it, so you have a moving fortress. So we're going to try that out probably next.
...
TF2 owns.

caesium 04-16-2008 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngeeMan
...[some lame attempts by valve to hash the game up even more]...

TF2 owns.

rofl :( well i'm clanning in tf2 atm and am really trying my best to like it and give it a proper chance to impress me (cos i want to clan in a v active game), but imo it's a srsly flawed game for so many reasons (that i'm not going into) and the more i play it the more i feel that way. sure it's one of the more enjoyable now-and-then pub fests in recent years, but that's about it sadly. so many shockingly bad/ignorant gameplay decisions, and this direction of unlockables just makes me wanna cry lol.. gotta love the gfx/theme tho xx :D

greenday5494 04-16-2008 03:22 PM

lol, people are already becoming bored with TF2. shows how shallowness of a game kills it.

Handym 04-16-2008 04:12 PM

Just like I expected. Lots of dumb "TF2 sucks" comments instead of an actual thread response.

I agree for sure, that these achievements are going to rock, and make me play medic, a lot, probaly.

pF 04-16-2008 04:16 PM

The "Critzcrieg" especially sounds massively overpowering..

BlisTer 04-16-2008 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caesium
rofl :( well i'm clanning in tf2 atm and am really trying my best to like it and give it a proper chance to impress me (cos i want to clan in a v active game), but imo it's a srsly flawed game for so many reasons (that i'm not going into) and the more i play it the more i feel that way. sure it's one of the more enjoyable now-and-then pub fests in recent years, but that's about it sadly. so many shockingly bad/ignorant gameplay decisions, and this direction of unlockables just makes me wanna cry lol.. gotta love the gfx/theme tho xx :D

Are your clanmates thinking that too or are you dragged into it? :p Convince them to clan in FF, in good weeks we play 2 wars a week and some pickups

EngeeMan 04-16-2008 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinaryLife
I dont' have a problem with TF2 I think it's fun in its own right. I think FF is better, there is more strategy involved and movement controls. I enjoy strategy and movement. TF2 does not offer that. TF2 is what I play when I don't feel like trying very hard and just to mess around a little.

That said, I was interested in your post about the changes in TF2. But this general low brow attitude towards FF makes me wonder why you are even here. Unless you are so hopelessly in love with Valve that you feel some inherent neet to give them free advertising.

If you don't like FF then don't play it. If you do, then enjoy it. If you like TF2, then enjoy, but prancing around like Valve's personal fairy come to shove it down our throats with an extra taste of arrogence is quite insulting to the TF2 community. Apparently, if they are all like you, then they can't get over how much better FF is otherwise, why be so damn concerned with it?

Thank you, that is all.

It was a pointless response to a pointless post. The idea that removing grenades turns a deeply strategic game (TFC) into a boring game that gets old before the first map even loads is pretty ridiculous. Because that's essentially the only difference between the two. Different art style/graphics don't make a game boring faster. Maybe the maps do, but maps are being released and the mapping tools are freely available.

But of course "dumbed down, boring game with no strategy" takes less time to type than anything actually constructive.

ANYWAY, that's been done.

I have pretty mixed reactions to these initial plans of unlockable loadouts based on achievement progress. My primary concern is that immediately following the update (much like the pyro "buff" update of TFC) the servers will be flooded with medics. It's a good thing to encourage the use of medics and personally I enjoy it very much away but a little of a good thing can go a long way.

The weapons seem on their face to be pretty balanced except maybe for the The Blutsaugher. I would definitely select it in favor of the regular critting needle gun pretty much any day of the week. I'm also concerned about there being achievements require some sort of abnormal action that would be exceedingly difficult to acquire. RW has stated before that one would be healing 10 million HP. You can play for about 50 hours of medic and have around 3 million HP healed if that is any indication.

And goldrush sounds pretty awesome in just about every way. Hunted was good, but I had about 20% good matches and 80% grief fests on that map. Hunted running the wrong way, gibbing himself in the starting hatch, or just doing jack shit. The automated cart sounds great and seems like it is something from Legends of the Hidden Temple or some gameshow.

I sort of wish they had rolled 2 class updates into the same update, but apparently they will be produced much more quickly from now on (like the Meet The... videos? lol).

Plus all classes getting more unlockable weapons and individual achievements should add much more stuff to do for those who feel the game is too static or whatever it is. A rocket launcher that only has 1 round per clip but crits every time? Or 2 rounds per clip but each rocket is twice as powerful as a regular rocket? Maybe sacrificing the demoman's stickies for a hitscan weapon, or the regular grenades for the MIRV-like cluster bomb.

There is a ton of room for additions and changes and personally feel this is pretty exciting. Just as long as the optional unlockables aren't blatantly more powerful than their standard counterparts everything will be fine.

Circuitous 04-16-2008 05:29 PM

People: this is a TF2 thread.

Keep your bitching to yourselves and don't turn this into an FF v. TF2 argument.

Next person to post in this thread with an FF v. TF2 attitude gets a week-long ban. Period.

Ginger Lord 04-16-2008 05:29 PM

Next person to moan about TF2 in this thread gets a short trip elsewhere.

Edit: Double team.

Circuitous 04-16-2008 05:34 PM

You're like the Critzcrieg, lending validity to my bomb-spewing Demoman of a post.

On topic... the new weapons actually sound pretty cool. They're rehashes, yeah, but the idea of unloackable content that, rather than simply being better, instead completely changes your gameplay style... well, I think that's cool.

I don't actually play the game much anymore, but my brother seems to love it (and enjoys using my account for the purpose) so I'm sure I'll have these unlocked and ready for demonstration eventually.

Circuitous 04-16-2008 05:59 PM

Double-post.

GambiT, expect a PM from me shortly, I don't need this (or any other) thread getting more off-topic. I wanna work this out with you.

As for the rest of you, prior thread stands. DISCUSS.

GambiT 04-16-2008 06:04 PM

will do...


are they doing anything for the other classes like this??

Circuitous 04-16-2008 06:06 PM

In time, yeah.

The idea was:

1. Pick a class.
2. Devise new achievements for that class.
3. Devise new armaments that can be unlocked via these achievements.
4. Repeat.

(if anyone adds ??? and Profit! to that list I'll ban them. :twisted: )

myersjr 04-16-2008 06:16 PM

Ive tried and tried, i just cant get into it. Wish i could provide a single explanation as to why. I can see why some like it, the classes are pretty even all the way around. It does require teamwork to hold a cap point. I think there are a few gamers out there who nver learned to bhop or conc, so for them, tf2 is perfect in the sense that they dont have to worry about those things. No one can really rack up the score. I think they might like that cuz nobody wants to be embarrassed. Ive noticed that the rounds generally take a lot longer to complete so maybe they like that..?? Any thoughts??

Desyphur 04-16-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous
In time, yeah.

The idea was:

1. Pick a class.
2. Devise new achievements for that class.
3. Devise new armaments that can be unlocked via these achievements.
4. Repeat.
5. ???
6. Profit!

(if anyone adds ??? and Profit! to that list I'll ban them. :twisted: )

<.<

Doompiggy 04-16-2008 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous
In time, yeah.

The idea was:

1. Pick a class.
2. Devise new achievements for that class.
3. Devise new armaments that can be unlocked via these achievements.
4. Repeat.
5. ????
6. SUPROFL
(if anyone adds ??? and Profit! to that list I'll ban them. :twisted: )

<3 :p
But why did they choose medic to get them first? I thought it medic was fine, but the soldier... Oh he's another story...

richard nixon 04-16-2008 06:46 PM

I love the achievements. It's unrewarding (now) until these unlockables but it still was fun. Hopefully they won't take so long in doing the other classes extra achievements + unlockable weapons.

zE 04-16-2008 06:51 PM

lol..
 
this was suposed to be in chat/other games.. tf2 maps on the maps section , tf2 updates in the general discussion section : O

Circuitous 04-16-2008 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desyphur
<.<

Don't ever call my bluff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doompiggy
<3 :p
But why did they choose medic to get them first? I thought it medic was fine, but the soldier... Oh he's another story...

'Sup loophole.

To GambiT and Handym: we're discussing unlockables, not whether or not you dislike TF2's gameplay. If you dislike unlockables or achievements, that's fine.

greenday5494 04-16-2008 09:33 PM

you see, the reason i hated COD4 was because of the unlockables. i started out as a lowly private with NOTHING. and the developers were too lazy to put in a matchamking system like Halo 2/3, so i got masacered by people who did unlock stuff. I hope TF2 doesnt turn into that, however, this will breathe some life into it, and makes me want to pick it up. I'm getting the Box on the 4th, my birthday


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