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-   -   OldTimers/[o-t] Servers bans killing the FF Community? (https://forums.fortress-forever.com/showthread.php?t=16789)

elwood 08-04-2008 06:35 PM

OldTimers/[o-t] Servers bans killing the FF Community?
 
There was a thread in the catacombs regarding why FF hasn't done as well as it should. Someone made a really good point and i thought i'd share with the rest of you all and see what you thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelOfTime
Another problem I suspect, is that the current populated pubs seem to be run by those dreaded crazy Nazi pub admin types. A few of the current pubs share a super TFC banlist, and I have rarely been able to join a FF pub with people because of this issue.

There are roughly 2500 players on this banlist as evidenced here:

first page: http://forums.oldtimersclan.com/ot_banlog.php
last page: http://forums.oldtimersclan.com/ot_b...fset=2550&typ=

The banlist dates all the way back to 2005, and a ban resulting from either TFC, TF2, or FF is spread across all their servers in every game. It effects Old Timers Clan server, [AE] server, and at least a 3rd whose name I cannot recall. I can imagine people who used to play TFC spending the time to download FF, trying to join a pub and seeing themselves banned already, then immediately deleting the game thinking its broken or something. Not to mention carrying bans from TF2 loses pubbers that may want to move from TF2 to FF. From what I gather, I am banned simply because I was on the STA banlist at one point.

Even more evidence that this is hurting FF can be seen with their tool here:

http://forums.oldtimersclan.com/ot_llamawrangler.php

Take a look at "Last Connection Attempt" on the left with respect to "Date Banned" more to the right. There are people banned a year or more ago trying to connect recently. Remember this banlist spans at least 3 "popular" servers, which is a good chunk of the US FF server list. It is possible your player base could be doubled or more simply be removing this banlist from the effected pubs, and then trying to advertise again.

I realize it is not under the FF developers control if pub people want to have a Nazi-style server with bans dating back to 2005 from TFC, and its also not under their control that people happen to congregate on these types of servers, but it's definitely a problem. If you want more players you need to talk to these pub admins.

Your thoughts?

KubeDawg 08-04-2008 06:45 PM

There are many fish in the sea.
These servers tend to be full most of the time, and are generally more popular:
:e0: Server, PwnPalace, FF School.org, /order/, and {FYC}.

I don't judge a game by the server I visit. I judge it by the game. If I get banned, there are other servers I can go to....

elwood 08-04-2008 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg
There are many fish in the sea.

ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg
generally more popular:
:e0: Server, PwnPalace, FF School.org, /order/, and {FYC}.

Yep you just named all the US/North American Servers that people tend to play on from time to time. I wouldn't call that a "sea" of servers by any means loLz. I would call that a select few to be honest. Plus, typically there are only 1 of those servers that you named that is being populated at a single time. Maybe a second server with 3-4 people if you're lucky.

That is why i would also like any o-t admin look into my case if they had the time because i do think there is a mistake. If i was banned for good reason then so be it, but i remember playing on that server with no problems. Come back home and i'm perm banned. Like you said though, kube, there are other servers to play on just really not that many to choose from. ;)

However, the main point of this thread is yes, there it is there server/community and they can do whatever they want. BUT, all those bans from lingering from TFC (another game) in 2005 could be hurting the FF player base. WheelOfTime/Cheese made a valid point that could definitely be discussed within your gaming community. That list is a bit crazy... 56 pages, roughly 2,500 bans, and it could have been a permanent ban due to something little, ie:

7/25/08 7:03 pm bullfrog STEAM_0:0:11903646 "camping"

7/02/08 11:42 pm Horse-face Space-dog STEAM_0:0:16594182 Insulting the clan
7/02/08 10:18 pm Connor MacManus STEAM_0:0:19422739 Calling admins pathetic


I know in their TFC servers, o-t admins would ban players on sight if a person was caught bunnyhopping. There are quite a few bans regarding that to skilled TFC players that would be very good for this game in FF because they were involved with the TFC community for 6-8+ years straight.

Gwarsbane 08-04-2008 07:11 PM

Why don't you ask them about it in their forums? They have a private section where you can talk to them and no one else sees what you or they say.

The admins here will just close threads like this.

elwood 08-04-2008 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwarsbane
The admins here will just close threads like this.


That's too bad, because i think something like this should be discussed. Personally after looking at that ridiculous 56 paged permanent ban list that is also as old and continued from the year 2005... it does have some impact on the game itself like it or not. :rolleyes:

Plus, i am asking them here and they can PM me over these forums because i don't want to register on yet another forum board. It's not necessary at all to register on another board when they can just shoot me a PM here. They can see my small personal request and get back to me no problem.

Agent Buckshot Moose 08-04-2008 07:56 PM

This will probably be moved to that new forum specifically made for this.

Skanky Butterpuss 08-04-2008 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose
This will probably be moved to that new forum specifically made for this.

yup :)

elwood 08-04-2008 09:35 PM

Thanks for moving it and not locking/deleting.

WetWired 08-04-2008 11:37 PM

I love that they have a huge ban list. It gives my server, and other servers, like the ones Kube mentioned, more players. They can run their servers however they see fit. It doesn't bother me in the least.

PwnPalace FTW :D

KubeDawg 08-04-2008 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWired
I love that they have a huge ban list. It gives my server, and other servers, like the ones Kube mentioned, more players. They can run their servers however they see fit. It doesn't bother me in the least.

PwnPalace FTW :D

exactly.

Scuzzy 08-05-2008 04:30 PM

I'll manage and address this thread later today, on my lunch break atm and do not have time to break it out into it's many points.

Thanks,
Scuzzy

Mrboom 08-05-2008 09:36 PM

Maybe im not completely understanding your point but let me see if I can grasp it. Basically you are saying that the downfall of the entire game is based apon One Server? Ok so there isnt a plethora of servers to play on but because One Server has a player blocked they stop playing the game?

Well I ask you this.. What makes that One Server so popular? What makes the players who can abide by the rules continue to come back? Maybe they enjoy the environment... Maybe they enjoy the fact that a lot of the trouble makers are gone from the server ( Not pointed at any one person ).

Ok so you say that there are bans from 2005.. That is 3yrs ago, Im sure some of those players are still around but im also sure 85% of them are long gone. So with this you would like to claim that the 15% remaining would put FF on the map and in the homes of millions? I think its basically just pointing your finger at someone else and saying they are to blame.

Maybe its that in itself that hurts the expansion of the game. I absolutely love FF.. I love the feel of the game and highly enjoy the playing experience. But what I hate is logging into a server of egotistical elite players who think that there stuff doesnt stink.. Its simply a game, you die and you come back to life to kill again.. Yes id love to see 20 servers full a night but with the constant bickering it just wont happen.

Really long story short, if you dont like the rules then please feel free to pay for your own server and play the game how you feel it should be played. But it is asinine to think that because One Server has an extensive banned list it has killed a game.

Scuzzy 08-06-2008 12:00 AM

My response to WheelOfTime in the Catecombs thread:

http://forums.thecatacombs.net/showt...66#post1662266

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catecombs Post
Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelOfTime (Post 1661888)
Another problem I suspect, is that the current populated pubs seem to be run by those dreaded crazy Nazi pub admin types. A few of the current pubs share a super TFC banlist, and I have rarely been able to join a FF pub with people because of this issue.

There are roughly 2500 players on this banlist as evidenced here:

first page: http://forums.oldtimersclan.com/ot_banlog.php
last page: http://forums.oldtimersclan.com/ot_b...fset=2550&typ=

The banlist dates all the way back to 2005, and a ban resulting from either TFC, TF2, or FF is spread across all their servers in every game. It effects Old Timers Clan server, [AE] server, and at least a 3rd whose name I cannot recall.

Oh come on Ben, this is a complete fabrication. The [AE] Server has never, to my knowledge, ever used our ban list. Now, if you are banned from the [AE] server, and some other third party server, that simply means three independent sources didn't care for you.... There's seems to be a common link between those things, You.


Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelOfTime (Post 1661888)
I can imagine people who used to play TFC spending the time to download FF, trying to join a pub and seeing themselves banned already, then immediately deleting the game thinking its broken or something.

This made me laugh. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelOfTime (Post 1661888)
Not to mention carrying bans from TF2 loses pubbers that may want to move from TF2 to FF. From what I gather, I am banned simply because I was on the STA banlist at one point.

Cheese 9/16/07 3:00 pm Permanent STEAM_0:1:3613037 Clan Administrative Directive #2

Actually we do not have your STA bans on file. Your complete record is available here:

http://forums.oldtimersclan.com/scuz...AM_0:1:3613037

I've updated the general ban reason that everyone sees on the ban page to reflect the original ban. You were warned and slayed by the server several times about language and intentionally ignored them to get banned. Since you did so intentionally the server auto-banned you perm. The second clan administrative ban was done through a different automated process that didn't check to see if your account was already banned. Ironic that the system found two reasons to remove you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelOfTime (Post 1661888)
Take a look at "Last Connection Attempt" on the left with respect to "Date Banned" more to the right. There are people banned a year or more ago trying to connect recently.

Absolutely, and the regulars who enjoy our environment are exstatic that people who want to camp respawns, use exploits, cheats, hacks, etc are not returning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelOfTime (Post 1661888)
Remember this banlist spans at least 3 "popular" servers, which is a good chunk of the US FF server list. It is possible your player base could be doubled or more simply be removing this banlist from the effected pubs, and then trying to advertise again.

Again, another lie. AE and the other popular servers do not use the [o-t] ban list to my knowledge. If you have been banned there they did so for their own reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelOfTime (Post 1661888)
I realize it is not under the FF developers control if pub people want to have a Nazi-style server with bans dating back to 2005 from TFC, and its also not under their control that people happen to congregate on these types of servers, but it's definitely a problem. If you want more players you need to talk to these pub admins.

Our rules were in place LONG before FF was released. Everyone in the FF forums derided our server and chanted and danced at how we'd become obsolete once FF was out because no one would play there. The irony those same people are now bitching and whining that they can't play in our server. The fact that we are popular is a clear indication that our target community (the people the [o-t] want to play with) are comfortable playing in our server under our rules. They like that individuals who are a problem and a distraction to their fun are removed and never return.

We host, and have hosted, one of the beta servers the development team uses to work on the game. We provide custom update interfaces for them and a host of other things to help them out. Don't try to blame the [o-t] for it.... or at least outline for us what YOU have done to promote the games development.

I also posted the true log file when he claimed we were lying, and pointed out that he and redneck probably did more damage to the community as members of myg0t then any other issue we as a community have faced.

Aside from that I believe we already ran the numbers and found there are an extremely few (less then 10?) people that have been banned in our other servers that tried FF later on, so this entire argument is a moot point.

Scuzzy

Scuzzy 08-06-2008 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWired
I love that they have a huge ban list. It gives my server, and other servers, like the ones Kube mentioned, more players. They can run their servers however they see fit. It doesn't bother me in the least.

PwnPalace FTW :D

And Wired you're environment is more "successful" then ours if you want to talk straight player numbers. You guys are a great example of people that created an different environment and have a different demographic that is clearly proof that it can be done. I applaud you guys for the need you fill in the community.

Scuzzy

Ihmhi 08-06-2008 12:55 AM

Yeah, a lot of these people arguments don't hold up real well when you have things like server logs, the truth, etc.

I still don't like the no swearing rule at [o-t] but I respect it while I'm playing there and I know why you have it.

Also, since the FF forums don't have such a rule, I would like to add fuckity fucker McFuckenstein. The third. Fuck. :lol:

[AE] 82694 08-06-2008 01:09 AM

Well the main thing for a popular server is just simply to play on it. Getting back to scuzzies post about the ban list

[AE] uses steam bans so besides or local ban list we use steam bans. If you get caught on another server hacking and that server owner submits a demo,it gets reviewed then approved as cheating or denied. If approved then you go on the steam bans ban list. They also have anti cheat software in their plug in. So if you can't connect to a server it might be because you got busted before.

I imported a copy of bans from or HL2 DM when we were running it which were 95 % myg0t members. Sorry but if you were one of those and you can't connect to my server Go to our forums http://www.asseaterclan.com register and PM Me or make a post.
So think about all the little fun shit you do and see if it's worth it. I've played on Scuzzies server a few times and haven't been banned yet. But I do disable my hommer spray first.:)

Edit: Ihmhi likes to say Fuck a lot.

Ihmhi 08-06-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [AE] 82694
Edit: Ihmhi likes to say Fuck a lot.

Don't know what the fuck you're talking about, ya fuckin' fuck.



(Fuck.)

Mudfrog 08-06-2008 04:52 PM

If anything I think their server adds to the FF community. Some of us like to play on a server where there are rules about swearing and their server gives us that experience. Quite often when I play my 3 kids watch me, I personally do not want to subject them to a bunch of players cussing up a storm.

So for this I applaud old timers, I have nothing against any other servers I just enjoy spending most of my time playing on the old timers as it's a family friendly server.

It's all about respect guys, respect the rules of the server and you will have no issues, disrespect the rules and you get banned.

greenday5494 08-06-2008 04:57 PM

i find it ironic that you use worse language than is allowed in your server.

You better not swear, or the 4 year olds will see it

:rolleyes:

Scuzzy 08-06-2008 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenday5494
i find it ironic that you use worse language than is allowed in your server.

You better not swear, or the 4 year olds will see it

:rolleyes:

Let me help correct where you are wrong.

1. It's not my server.
2. When the server is open to the public I follow the server rules.
3. I am unaware of any language restrictions in this forum, so swearing here isn't doesn't constitute any sort of hypocracy on my part. I'm not breaking any rules, no one has stated or warned me that I am.

So... not sure what's ironic about all that green... but whatever floats your boat chief.


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